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It is currently Sun Apr 28, 2024 1:23 pm
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snozzberries
Site Supporter
Location: King County Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 Posts: 4012
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I have noticed that we don't have a forum for Education. Training and Education on how to shoot a firearm, not just safely, but properly and accurately. How to improve the size of your groupings. How to become a better shot.
We talk lots about hardware, buying and selling, random bullshit, laws that effect us, but we never talk about how to become a better shot. Why not?
I posted a topic on it, and maybe I did it wrong, but I was pretty well ignored. Do most people just learn from their father and think he is the end-all be-all of shooting? I'd like to learn from olympic champions and digest their lessons. Learn from the best of the best, and maybe oneday I can hope to be 1/10th of what they are.
Why don't we have a subforum with thousands of topics dedicated to learning how to improve the performance of our hobby?
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:39 pm |
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edogg
Site Supporter
Location: Central FL Joined: Sun Apr 7, 2013 Posts: 3207
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Pfft, all you need you can learn from YouTube.
:)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:46 pm |
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snozzberries
Site Supporter
Location: King County Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 Posts: 4012
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edogg wrote: Pfft, all you need you can learn from YouTube.
:)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Which youtube video and channel? I'm sure there are lots that are great, and lots that are terrible. Can you help differentiate them?
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:51 pm |
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cmica
Site Supporter
Location: I-5 /512 Joined: Thu Dec 8, 2011 Posts: 15235
Real Name: chris
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go to a class(s), once you start bad habits hard to break
_________________
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:47 pm |
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snozzberries
Site Supporter
Location: King County Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 Posts: 4012
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cmica wrote: :thumbsdown:
go to a class(s), once you start bad habits hard to break That's my point! I need to stop my bad habits before they are ingrained. Are you saying my idea is a bad one? The best way to fight bad habits with by not having education and remaining ignorant? I'd love to go to a class, but that's not always easy to do and easy to afford. Videos and books are much easier. This is 2016, we have youtube, books, online video's, forums, friends, neighbors, etc etc etc.
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:50 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52092
Real Name: Steve
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I don't generally like the idea of additional forums, and I don't think we need one for this either . . . but . . . I agree that it would be nice if we had more discussion of techniques and training, and we could do more of that even on an informal basis.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:05 pm |
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edogg
Site Supporter
Location: Central FL Joined: Sun Apr 7, 2013 Posts: 3207
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snozzberries wrote: edogg wrote: Pfft, all you need you can learn from YouTube.
:)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Which youtube video and channel? I'm sure there are lots that are great, and lots that are terrible. Can you help differentiate them? Your sarcasm detector needs a tuneup. :) There's no substitute for hands on training, IMO. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:06 pm |
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Jammer Six
Site Supporter
Location: Seattle Joined: Tue Jul 5, 2016 Posts: 682
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Speaking as an instructor, I suggest we continue without it.
Shooting absolutely, categorically can not be safely taught on an internet forum. There's the tiny question of liability, and the ways that any responsible instructor deals with it that are absent here.
_________________ "When I have your wounded." --Major Charles L. Kelly, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to acknowledge that an L.Z. was too hot, moments before being killed by a single shot, July 1st, 1964.
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:15 pm |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52092
Real Name: Steve
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Jammer Six wrote: Shooting absolutely, categorically can not be safely taught on an internet forum. Really? Granted, face-to-face instruction is great . . . but I've sure learned a lot over the years from the internet.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:40 pm |
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oldkim
Site Supporter
Location: Maple Valley, WA Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 9276
Real Name: Young
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So, my thoughts are yes and no.
Yes, it sounds good on paper - the need for an "education" subgroup...
But No because for many reasons and Yes, JammerSix hits most of them but I also feel that this whole forum site is about education. It may not teach everyone all the time but it does teach some all the time.
The big thing about teaching a group is that we at not a group... per se'
We learn as individuals and come from varying backgrounds, experiences and needs. Even "experienced" shooters jumping into a different discipline... e.g. a rifle shooter into handguns or shotguns, etc
Or even a rifle shooter shooting from a semi (AR platform or the like) into a high end bolt action with very good scope...
So many variable...
If you are new than ask the question. But you need to clarify a bit (as much as you can) as to what you need. Sometimes - folks can be so new... they don't even know what questions... but we got to start off someplace. Pick a beginning and put one foot and so forth.
So as for needing a "new" subgroup. I vote no - not needed because simply to "vague"
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:42 pm |
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Jammer Six
Site Supporter
Location: Seattle Joined: Tue Jul 5, 2016 Posts: 682
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Yes, really.
I didn't say you couldn't learn off the internet, I said you can't teach someone to shoot over the internet.
That difference is everything. Coupled with the fact that a non-shooter wouldn't know what he or she needs to know, it could be fatal. One (of many) of the things a professional instructor provides is that he or she knows exactly what you need to be taught to shoot safely at a given range; understanding that and providing it is part of the service.
Example: are the safety rules and range procedures different at Wade's and Kenmore?
Yes. Wade's runs a hot line, under the Cooper Four. Kenmore is a hot & cold line, under NRA.
Teaching both sets of safety rules, let alone both procedures to someone who has never fired a weapon before is a major mistake. It's a rookie mistake, and once you've done it, you'll never push a student beyond the tried and true, no matter how brilliant you think they are or how big her tits are.
_________________ "When I have your wounded." --Major Charles L. Kelly, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to acknowledge that an L.Z. was too hot, moments before being killed by a single shot, July 1st, 1964.
Last edited by Jammer Six on Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:49 pm |
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oldkim
Site Supporter
Location: Maple Valley, WA Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 9276
Real Name: Young
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MadPick wrote: Granted, face-to-face instruction is great . . . but I've sure learned a lot over the years from the internet. But from a "true newbie" what they learn cannot be filtered from some basis of understanding. Someone with a basic understanding can somewhat detect BS (somewhat)... compared to someone that doesn't even have a clue. But someone with a clue can learn and evolve and put into action the info on the internet... as some of it can be very specific and match their needs. Conversely, something on the internet is so specific that the person watching has no clue from what's up or down (or what end the bullet comes out)... The internet... for example this website - WaGuns! Is awesome! and is an education platform in itself (openly biased opinion).
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:52 pm |
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CQBgopher
Site Supporter
Location: WA/MT Joined: Thu Sep 6, 2012 Posts: 8294
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Most forum sites I frequent have lots of drama in the "instruction and how-to" forums. Enough drama that before long many avoid it entirely.
If people think general discussion is a train wreck wait til Weaver vs Chapman vs Power Isoceles vs Fighting vs Power Point vs Strong Hand Retention becomes a fight to the death.
_________________ Rara Temporum Felicitas Ubi Sentire Quae Velis Et Quod Velis Dicere Licet. ― Tacitus "Well, nobody's perfect." ― Osgood Fielding III
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:54 pm |
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oldkim
Site Supporter
Location: Maple Valley, WA Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 9276
Real Name: Young
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Jammer Six wrote: Yes, really.
I didn't say you couldn't learn off the internet, I said you can't teach someone to shoot over the internet.
That difference is everything. Coupled with the fact that a non-shooter wouldn't know what he or she needs to know, it could be fatal. One (of many) of the things a professional instructor provides is that he or she knows exactly what you need to be taught to shoot safely at a given range; understanding that and providing it is part of the service.
The fallacy to your equation (from a NRA Instructor for the last decade or more)... Is that how many of us started off with a "professional" instructor? I surely didn't. I am biased and do recommend getting a proper instructor... but there are simple downsides from a real life perspective (finding the right instructor and money)...
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:57 pm |
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Jammer Six
Site Supporter
Location: Seattle Joined: Tue Jul 5, 2016 Posts: 682
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Okay. Unless you're claiming you learned off the internet, I'm not sure what your point is.
If you didn't learn off the internet, I'd bet someone taught you. I'm not arguing that it has to be a professional instructor to teach you, I'm arguing that it shouldn't happen over the internet. (And, therefore, through this board.)
_________________ "When I have your wounded." --Major Charles L. Kelly, callsign "Dustoff", refusing to acknowledge that an L.Z. was too hot, moments before being killed by a single shot, July 1st, 1964.
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Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:02 pm |
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