Trump says Trump Tower wiretapped just before election

[MorrisWR]

Interesting read:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... p-campaign

And the most forthright part coming from main stream media (amazing they actually admit it):

"Is there an innocent interpretation of all this? Of course there is. After all, the underlying allegation of an election-hacking conspiracy between the Putin regime and the Trump campaign is nonsense, so there must necessarily be an innocent interpretation. And, lo and behold, the Times itself provides it — further down in the story, after all the sensational conspiracy mongering: It is not clear whether the intercepted communications had anything to do with Mr. Trump’s campaign, or Mr. Trump himself. It is also unclear whether the inquiry has anything to do with an investigation into the hacking of the Democratic National Committee’s computers and other attempts to disrupt the elections in November."

This is just another way to keep people riled up. Trump has enough real problems with some of his policies and lack of specifics that should get scrutiny without resorting to rabbit trails that are a losing cause.

[ANZAC]

Here's what we do know:

- Flynn had to step down due to improper discussions with Russian gov prior to Trump being in office.

Flynn did not step down because his discussions were improper, he stepped down because he did not let the administration know. The FBI said as much:

A lot of these Russian allegations are used to discredit Trump's people and are just propaganda. The Republicans use similar tactics. Hammer something long enough (as Saul Alinsky said so well) and it eventually will stick in peoples minds.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... e7e92837b6

"The FBI in late December reviewed intercepts of communications between the Russian ambassador to the United States and retired Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn — national security adviser to then-President-elect Trump — but has not found any evidence of wrongdoing or illicit ties to the Russian government, U.S. officials said."

So why did he lie to Pence?

[jdhbulseye]

Here's what we do know:

- Flynn had to step down due to improper discussions with Russian gov prior to Trump being in office.

Flynn did not step down because his discussions were improper, he stepped down because he did not let the administration know. The FBI said as much:

A lot of these Russian allegations are used to discredit Trump's people and are just propaganda. The Republicans use similar tactics. Hammer something long enough (as Saul Alinsky said so well) and it eventually will stick in peoples minds.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... e7e92837b6

"The FBI in late December reviewed intercepts of communications between the Russian ambassador to the United States and retired Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn — national security adviser to then-President-elect Trump — but has not found any evidence of wrongdoing or illicit ties to the Russian government, U.S. officials said."

So why did he lie to Pence?

Who is John Galt?

[ANZAC]

were not "in government" at the time they spoke to the Amb.

BTW the Russian Amb is a known recruiter...

1. Its not illegal to talk to the Russian Ambassador to the US just because one is not "in government", especially when you know you are going to be or very likely may be "in government" shortly. So....not a valid argument.
2. BTW the Russian Ambassador is the known official Russian Ambassador to the United States. Oooooh he is a known recruiter too? Oh noes! guess we shouldn't let anyone "in government " or soon to be "in government" talk to him evar!
3. loosen your tinfoil hat mate.

1. It is illegal to communicate with foreign governments to try to influence their stance related to any disputes or issues with the US. We don't know what was said. Seeing as he lied to Pence et al about the contact in the first place, it would be stupid to think it was a harmless interaction. People don't step down for forgetting to mention something that was 100% legit.

2. Officials have described Kislyak as a top spy and spy recruiter: http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/02/world/ser ... s-profile/

3. There's more to support what I've said above than to support Trump's wiretapping claims. He's the one with the tinfoil hat.

But anyway, the list of Trump's people with some kind of Russian connection continues to grow....

[jdhbulseye]

were not "in government" at the time they spoke to the Amb.

BTW the Russian Amb is a known recruiter...

1. Its not illegal to talk to the Russian Ambassador to the US just because one is not "in government", especially when you know you are going to be or very likely may be "in government" shortly. So....not a valid argument.
2. BTW the Russian Ambassador is the known official Russian Ambassador to the United States. Oooooh he is a known recruiter too? Oh noes! guess we shouldn't let anyone "in government " or soon to be "in government" talk to him evar!
3. loosen your tinfoil hat mate.

1. It is illegal to communicate with foreign governments to try to influence their stance related to any disputes or issues with the US. We don't know what was said. Seeing as he lied to Pence et al about the contact in the first place, it would be stupid to think it was a harmless interaction. People don't step down for forgetting to mention something that was 100% legit.

2. Officials have described Kislyak as a top spy and spy recruiter: http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/02/world/ser ... s-profile/

3. There's more to support what I've said above than to support Trump's wiretapping claims. He's the one with the tinfoil hat.

But anyway, the list of Trump's people with some kind of Russian connection continues to grow....

As to your #1: thats ostensibly why its being investigated by the twats in our federal government apparatus isnt it? So lets let it play out before we default to "guilty as charged" shall we? Unless you aren't on board with the way the American system of justice is supposed to work.

As to your #2: I didn't dispute that; and so fucking what? Should no one in our government or no one who is about to be in our government interact with the motherfucker then? At its foundation this argument (but, but ambassador is spymaster too!) attempts to use genetic fallacy to insinuate that nefarious activity is more likely than not in the case in question.

As to your #3: Red Herring. Thats a lame ass attempt to redirect the issue from debating the points of the argument to: "trump tweeted crazy shit, he is the one off the rails not me!". Trumps sanity is beside the point of your previous arguments regarding Flynn et. al.

[Alpine]

Flynn likely did nothing wrong aside from not informing Pence. His resignation was a "gotchya" not an actual result of a crime.

[PMB]

While I do not have anyone on my ignore list, there are a few people who I do not waste my time trying to have a rational debate with.

I've never been a fan of the phrase "Haters gonna hate" but it seems applicable here.

[jdhbulseye]

I do it to entertain myself more than anything.

[PMB]

I do it to entertain myself more than anything.

Some debates should come with the warning " FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY "

[jdhbulseye]

I do it to entertain myself more than anything.

Some debates should come with the warning " FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY "

Fixed!

Too subtle?

[ANZAC]

As to your #1: thats ostensibly why its being investigated by the twats in our federal government apparatus isnt it? So lets let it play out before we default to "guilty as charged" shall we? Unless you aren't on board with the way the American system of justice is supposed to work.

As to your #2: I didn't dispute that; and so fucking what? Should no one in our government or no one who is about to be in our government interact with the motherfucker then? At its foundation this argument (but, but ambassador is spymaster too!) attempts to use genetic fallacy to insinuate that nefarious activity is more likely than not in the case in question.

As to your #3: Red Herring. Thats a lame ass attempt to redirect the issue from debating the points of the argument to: "trump tweeted crazy shit, he is the one off the rails not me!". Trumps sanity is beside the point of your previous arguments regarding Flynn et. al.

#1 - sure, but apparently has actions (lying) were serious enough for him to get canned

#2 - it goes to "why should we be concerned if such a meeting took place"

#3 - I am not sure how it can be a red herring when it is the title of the thread we are discussing.

[jdhbulseye]

As to your #1: thats ostensibly why its being investigated by the twats in our federal government apparatus isnt it? So lets let it play out before we default to "guilty as charged" shall we? Unless you aren't on board with the way the American system of justice is supposed to work.

As to your #2: I didn't dispute that; and so fucking what? Should no one in our government or no one who is about to be in our government interact with the motherfucker then? At its foundation this argument (but, but ambassador is spymaster too!) attempts to use genetic fallacy to insinuate that nefarious activity is more likely than not in the case in question.

As to your #3: Red Herring. Thats a lame ass attempt to redirect the issue from debating the points of the argument to: "trump tweeted crazy shit, he is the one off the rails not me!". Trumps sanity is beside the point of your previous arguments regarding Flynn et. al.

#1 - sure, but apparently has actions (lying) were serious enough for him to get canned

#2 - it goes to "why should we be concerned if such a meeting took place"

#3 - I am not sure how it can be a red herring when it is the title of the thread we are discussing.

In response to 1 and 2 above: already addressed, re-read my previous response to your previous #1.

In response to your #3: Regarding an apparent inability to understand and/or identify informal fallacies, to borrow the structure of a popular philosophical thought experiment: If an informal fallacy falls in the wilds of the internet and one does not posses the ability to identify it, does it still make a sound?

[Pablo]

Real or not?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-0 ... ping-story

[ANZAC]

""Director Comey, was the president’s statement that Obama had his wires tapped in Trump tower a true statement?" Rep. Schiff asked.

"With respect to the Presidents tweets ... I have no information that supports these tweets," FBI Director Comey said. "And we have looked carefully inside the FBI. The Department of Justice has asked me to share with you that the answer is the same for DOJ and all its components. The Department has no information that supports those tweets."

NSA director: We didn't ask the UK to spy on Trump
NSA Director Mike Rogers says "No, sir," when Rep. Adam Schiff asked if he requested the UK's GCHQ to gather intel on Trump.

"Comey: I have been authorized by the DOJ to confirm that the FBI, as part of our counterintelligence mission, is investigating the Russian government’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election – and that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government. And whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russian’s efforts. As with any counterintelligence investigation, this will also include an assessment of whether any crimes were committed."

So.... just to recap.

Trump lies, a lot. Makes stuff up. Is delusional. Gets his news from Fox and Friends. (which is the definition of delusional)

And also the FBI is investigating Trump's ties to Russia.
Which the FBI failed to tell us before the election, while telling us all about Hillary's emails (on which they took no prosecutorial action).

Who is running this country? The FBI? Or a delusional liar with alleged ties to Russia?
Either way, we need to be concerned.

[AR15L]

""Director Comey, was the president’s statement that Obama had his wires tapped in Trump tower a true statement?" Rep. Schiff asked.

"With respect to the Presidents tweets ... I have no information that supports these tweets," FBI Director Comey said. "And we have looked carefully inside the FBI. The Department of Justice has asked me to share with you that the answer is the same for DOJ and all its components. The Department has no information that supports those tweets."

NSA director: We didn't ask the UK to spy on Trump
NSA Director Mike Rogers says "No, sir," when Rep. Adam Schiff asked if he requested the UK's GCHQ to gather intel on Trump.

"Comey: I have been authorized by the DOJ to confirm that the FBI, as part of our counterintelligence mission, is investigating the Russian government’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election – and that includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government. And whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russian’s efforts. As with any counterintelligence investigation, this will also include an assessment of whether any crimes were committed."

So.... just to recap.

Trump lies, a lot. Makes stuff up. Is delusional. Gets his news from Fox and Friends. (which is the definition of delusional)

And also the FBI is investigating Trump's ties to Russia.
Which the FBI failed to tell us before the election, while telling us all about Hillary's emails (on which they took no prosecutorial action).

Who is running this country? The FBI? Or a delusional liar with alleged ties to Russia?
Either way, we need to be concerned.

Are you still pissed that Hitlary lost?