So wait, they knew of the Dad's former ties to terrorism, yet still let him in their country to become a citizen? Sounds like they are now swimming through the shit they themselves created.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/05/24 ... -says.html


Manchester bomber Salman Abedi apparently wasn't the only member of his family to harbor extremist views as Libyan officials arrested the suicide bomber's father and two brothers, and uncovered what investigators called a plot for a new attack.

Hashim Abedi, who was born in 1997, was arrested in Tripoli on Wednesday evening by the Libyan counter-terrorism force Rada on suspicion of links to the Islamic State, and was planning a new attack on the Libyan capital, a government spokesman told Reuters on Wednesday.

The father of the bomber was arrested in Tripoli on Wednesday, a Libyan security spokesman told The Associated Press. The father, Ramadan Abedi, had said another brother of the bomber, Ismail, was arrested Tuesday.




Earlier Abdel-Basit Haroun, a former security official in Libya, told The Associated Press Wednesday that he personally knew Ramadan Abedi, the father of Salman Abedi, and that the elder Abedi was a member of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group in the 1990s. The group had links to Al Qaeda.

Don't worry we have a good screening process.

Oh wow

Bangers and mash served up Libyan style?? sad times

Guy says: We have to commit ourselves to stop giving terrorist recruiters "fodder" for recruitment.

In short, "we have to stop making them mad".

How about instead, they become human beings and learn to control their temper?

What ever happened to everyone being responsible for their own actions?

I can't MAKE you mad. You CHOOSE to respond with anger. You could have chosen to respond with patience. You could have chosen to respond with kindness, understanding, or a blank stare. Heck, you could even have chosen not to respond at all. Instead you chose anger. You are responsible for that.

In the senator's world, EVERYONE is a victim. The victims of terrorism are obvious. But the terrorist himself is also a victim. The poor guy is being controlled by all of those who say things he doesn't like. He has no control over himself, they have control over him. He HAS to get angry and shoot or bomb the crap out of people. They forced him to.

Hang on, weren't you the one who recently said that telling a homeless person to get a job might get the speaker punched? And that the speaker should just keep their trap shut because they'd deserve the beating they received on account of them being an ass? It was in the thread about the guy outside the post office in Everett or wherever. Am I remembering that correctly?

Yes, yes I am:



These jihadi fuckers are bloody well convinced that our very existence is offensive. In their minds, those people in Manchester bought what they got. The same holds true with the guy in CA who killed 6 people because the local women told him "no" one too many times.

Maybe keeping your mouth shut isn't the answer. Maybe the answer is to stop making excuses for people who assault, murder, and strap on kablooey vests because someone did something they didn't like.

Or am I misunderstanding your original sentiment?

oh snap you got served

oh lawd.

The sentiment of human kindness is laudable, and an honorable philosophy, up to a point.

This is nothing that human kindness will solve, however.

Several centuries of " Church and Mosque " inspired slaughter back and forth in the name of God and Allah have poisoned that well.

Unless we want to see women wearing tents full time and being circumcised when young, gay people murdered, alcohol and pork banned, music and dancing banned, and people executed on hearsay, just to do the short list of extreme Islamic prohibitions, there better be some serious ass kicking going on in response to religious violence.

The extreme groups of Islamic and Christian religious fanatics perceive human decency to be a sign of weakness, and an opportunity to advance their agendas.

We are reaping our ancestor's reward. There will be no mercy for the western world because the western world had no mercy for the east when they had the chance to try and extinguish Islam in the past.

Now, we must act tenfold in response to religious extremist violence, or we as a society will be a distant memory in the Caliphate in less than 50 years from now.

This is probably the same case as most things in life. It might be is and ain't at the same time...

If, by original, you mean, the one about the guy in front of the post office, then yes. Probably.

First off, I wasn't making excuses for the guy. And I tried to make that clear. He was wrong. I HOPE he was caught and prosecuted.

Second, there is a world of difference between getting angry because of years of being spit on both literally, and figuratively... And getting angry because someone isn't living the way you think they should.

Last... Responsibility for your own actions, goes both ways. If your words and actions are reasonable, and you are in no way provoking, attacking, or insulting someone, you have every reason to not expect reprisal. If on the other hand, you are intentionally provoking someone, or insulting them, then you shouldn't be surprised if they attack you. (If you think the 'victim' outside the post office only made a calm statement of fact to the beggars, I have some oceanfront property in Tennessee to sell you.)

And THEN... There are those who are just LOOKING for reasons to be offended. No matter how reasonable, or unoffensive you are, they are going to find some reason to be offended and attack you. This is what my response in this thread is about. That some people, will go on finding or manufacturing reasons to get angry. No matter what you say or do, they will blame you for their anger. (And yes, even some beggars have that kind of attitude.)

In either case, if you attack them, expect to be attacked back.

In a nutshell, this stick is sharp at both ends. It is better to be in the middle, than at either end. And you DO choose where you will be.



I guess I just keep trying to find the right way to explain what I mean. Let's try one last time...

If you are reasonable, and unoffensive, you have the right to expect not to be attacked. (In fact, if you ARE offensive, you still have the right to not be attacked. You are a complete and utter asshole, but you still have the right not to be attacked for that.)

This does not mean you keep kow-towing, bending over farther and farther, and being PC, and trying not to be offensive to those who WANT to find offense. It just means you are not intentionally offensive.

I am not a pacifist. I do TRY to show common courtesy in all that I do or say. I'll even go so far as uncommon, sometimes. But there is a limit.

But if you go around being intentionally offensive, then don't be surprised if you are attacked.

In EVERY case the person who takes offense then gets angry and attacks someone, is completely wrong. They should rightfully find consequences for their actions forthcoming in short order.

And there's the problem. "Offensive" is wholly in the mind of the viewer. Radicals see the West as offensive and are convinced we have spent decades or longer purposely insulting them -- with our presence in the ME, with our very existence, and probably with a bunch of other acts (both real and perceived) that aren't even coming to mind. As far as they're concerned, those people in Manchester were being asses on purpose and they deserved what they got.

The scale is vastly different between a terrorist attack and a beat down on the sidewalk, obviously, but the principle holds across the spectrum. Societies are naturally more enjoyable when there isn't a lot of unnecessary friction. I don't go out of my way to be a bitch or anything -- most people don't. But trying to live in an unoffensive way is impossible, because someone is sure to be infuriated by it. And so what if they are? So someone's offended. Boo fucking hoo! Physical violence is not a reasonable response to not getting our way. There are no excuses and no one else is to blame. No one bought their ticket on the punchy train with some unkind words. No one bought a torso full of shrapnel by showing their hair in public. All that shit, it's all on the perps. No one else.

Keeping it simple...

Absolutely agreed. No question.

With the caveat, if you are an asshole to others, don't be surprised if you get attacked.

As someone who is must assuredly considered an asshole by jihadis (I drove myself to the store today. The horror!), I can't disagree with that.

Surprised by these attacks, no. Angry and sick to fucking death of them happening, yes.

Agreed again. We actually do agree. Just saying things a bit differently.

You did not drive to the store with the intention of being an asshole to some jihadi.

But if I were a beggar in front of that store, and you told me to get a job, you are intentionally being an asshole to me.


I couldn't agree more.

This also doesn't give anyone license to intentionally be offensive.

There is a balance...

Society IS more enjoyable when people are not intentionally offensive.




I think the balance is lost because so many people either want to be assholes and look for any excuse to be so... Or people have lost sight of common sense, and have perverted their sense of common courtesy into the snowflake PC version we see now.

Yep! This is one of the main roots of the problem. https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa798_2.pdf