Kesselring's going out of business...

[CQBgopher]

I have the pdf version from the Skagit Herald if anyone wants it PM me your email

[MadPick]

I don't know if the Admin's would like me to post the entire article.

Thank you, good call.

[ANZAC]

The lawsuit cites company checks, credit card statements and receipts that show Don bought a $25,000 “muscle car” and a $55,000 shooting club membership and made other personal purchases with company funds.

What shooting club has a $55,000 membership fee?!

[deadshot2]

The lawsuit cites company checks, credit card statements and receipts that show Don bought a $25,000 “muscle car” and a $55,000 shooting club membership and made other personal purchases with company funds.

What shooting club has a $55,000 membership fee?!

$25,000 muscle car? What was it, a new "Dodge Charger" or an overpriced 68 Mustang?

As for the expensive membership fee? You must not get out much Valhalla Shooting club at the Elk Mountain Resort between Montrose and Telluride (CO) is $68,000.00.

Lots of expensive "clubs" out there. I was invited to play golf at Sand Hill's GC back in 2002 by the VP of a Company I used to work for. The "Buy-In" to that "club" was a modest $250k and total membership was limited to 150. Incredible course that was perfectly maintained. Cabins next to a stream and a Restaurant that rivaled the best anywhere in the US.

Only problem was that it was in the middle of effing nowhere, in the Sand Hills of Nebraska (N. of N. Platte) about 90 miles or so. When those guy's wanted to get away from it all, they really did. Not even a local airstrip to fly their own planes into although some supposedly flew into one of the towns along the Interstate and chartered a helicopter to drop them at the first tee

To me, it didn't make any sense but then I didn't have that kind of money to spend anyway. These guys apparently did.

[solyanik]

To me, it didn't make any sense but then I didn't have that kind of money to spend anyway. These guys apparently did.

Either that, or they also used company funds...

[Benja455]

With that many guns missing and sales without checking ID - I don't think I can even support the new store with a clear conscious.

This is pretty sickening to hear about.

Why?

Why is it sickening? I prefer 2,000+ guns weren't on the street in the hands of criminals. Pretty simple.

[ANZAC]

With that many guns missing and sales without checking ID - I don't think I can even support the new store with a clear conscious.

This is pretty sickening to hear about.

Why?

Why is it sickening? I prefer 2,000+ guns weren't on the street in the hands of criminals. Pretty simple.

So you think background checks are a-ok? Shocking - I thought everyone here didn't think they were effective.

[Benja455]

With that many guns missing and sales without checking ID - I don't think I can even support the new store with a clear conscious.

This is pretty sickening to hear about.

Why?

Why is it sickening? I prefer 2,000+ guns weren't on the street in the hands of criminals. Pretty simple.

So you think background checks are a-ok? Shocking - I thought everyone here didn't think they were effective.

Background checks absolutely work...buy from a dealer, pass a background check. Buy from me, I'll ask to see your CPL/WAC card. Pretty simple.

And I'd be happy to allow the .gov to mandate background checks if they would open the NICS system to civilian usage (via 1800 number, website or smart phone app)...although they should probably force all of the states to finally submit all of the missing mental health records.

[deadshot2]

With that many guns missing and sales without checking ID - I don't think I can even support the new store with a clear conscious.

This is pretty sickening to hear about.

Why?

Why is it sickening? I prefer 2,000+ guns weren't on the street in the hands of criminals. Pretty simple.

Nobody ever said the guns they couldn't account for were "on the street in the hands of criminals".

They just weren't properly logged OUT of the bound book the FFL's have to keep.

For all you and I know the background checks were made and the purchasers legit. Just the paperwork was sloppy.

FWIW, people bitch and gripe about the ATF all they want. In this case they did just what the taxpayers are paying them to do. Make sure the paperwork is followed up on.

Now, when one talks about UBC's, wouldn't have fixed this problem and unless they incorporate registration of firearms. UBC's won't even work for private sales.

[Benja455]

With that many guns missing and sales without checking ID - I don't think I can even support the new store with a clear conscious.

This is pretty sickening to hear about.

Why?

Why is it sickening? I prefer 2,000+ guns weren't on the street in the hands of criminals. Pretty simple.

Nobody ever said the guns they couldn't account for were "on the street in the hands of criminals".

They just weren't properly logged OUT of the bound book the FFL's have to keep.

For all you and I know the background checks were made and the purchasers legit. Just the paperwork was sloppy.

FWIW, people bitch and gripe about the ATF all they want. In this case they did just what the taxpayers are paying them to do. Make sure the paperwork is followed up on.

Now, when one talks about UBC's, wouldn't have fixed this problem and unless they incorporate registration of firearms. UBC's won't even work for private sales.

Are you joking? The article clearly states that at least one firearm was sold without a background check and many were sold without checking ID to confirm residency. As such, the paperwork was not squared away - at all. I stand by my statement, I won't do business with them.

[ANZAC]

Nobody ever said the guns they couldn't account for were "on the street in the hands of criminals".

Let me help you on that.

April 2010: ATF flags the shop for selling more than 15 guns tied to crimes.
February 2011: Gun shop flagged for having 10 or more guns used in crimes move through store.

For all you and I know the background checks were made and the purchasers legit. Just the paperwork was sloppy.

I am thinking that is not likely the case for those 25 firearms.

Now, when one talks about UBC's, wouldn't have fixed this problem and unless they incorporate registration of firearms. UBC's won't even work for private sales.

So why do background checks from dealers seem to work without registration? In this case at least, 25 guns got into criminals hands (according to the ATF), so I'm thinking that somehow the criminals bought the guns, without a background check.

[etrigan420]

So why do background checks from dealers seem to work without registration? In this case at least, 25 guns got into criminals hands (according to the ATF), so I'm thinking that somehow the criminals bought the guns, without a background check.

Well, like any other law, background check laws can only be effective if they are enforced and prosecuted...I'd really be interested to learn why no one (apparently) was prosecuted on the dealer side of those 20+ transactions.

Having read all of this, I'm finding it more difficult to internally justify doing business with anyone in this family.

It reads like a really bad soap opera. (Not that there is any other kind, but you get what I'm saying)

[ANZAC]

So why do background checks from dealers seem to work without registration? In this case at least, 25 guns got into criminals hands (according to the ATF), so I'm thinking that somehow the criminals bought the guns, without a background check.

Well, like any other law, background check laws can only be effective if they are enforced and prosecuted...I'd really be interested to learn why no one (apparently) was prosecuted on the dealer side of those 20+ transactions.

Totally agree - an FFL that supplies a firearm to someone without conducting a background check is breaking federal law. I also can't see why their FFL wasn't pulled waaaay sooner.

[deadshot2]

Are you joking? The article clearly states that at least one firearm was sold without a background check and many were sold without checking ID to confirm residency. As such, the paperwork was not squared away - at all. I stand by my statement, I won't do business with them.

Doing business with them is rather moot. The old group doesn't have a license anymore to sell firearms.

As for the comment on the firearms sold without checking ID or without background check the number involved were a long long way from the "2000" you initially commented on. Also, it was a cumulative total over a many year period of time.

Not defending the actions of the stupid in the store but don't see how any new law will change anything like this. People will continue to make mistakes and ignore laws. Background checks only work where they're used because all those firearms are "registered" in the bound book maintained by the FFL. Private Sales without registration has no chance of doing anything more than just inconveniencing those that choose to follow the law. Sales will still take place among friends, acquaintances, and relatives and if there's no way to track the specific weapon then UBC's are just another unenforceable law.

[Benja455]

Are you joking? The article clearly states that at least one firearm was sold without a background check and many were sold without checking ID to confirm residency. As such, the paperwork was not squared away - at all. I stand by my statement, I won't do business with them.

Doing business with them is rather moot. The old group doesn't have a license anymore to sell firearms.

As for the comment on the firearms sold without checking ID or without background check the number involved were a long long way from the "2000" you initially commented on. Also, it was a cumulative total over a many year period of time.

Not defending the actions of the stupid in the store but don't see how any new law will change anything like this. People will continue to make mistakes and ignore laws. Background checks only work where they're used because all those firearms are "registered" in the bound book maintained by the FFL. Private Sales without registration has no chance of doing anything more than just inconveniencing those that choose to follow the law. Sales will still take place among friends, acquaintances, and relatives and if there's no way to track the specific weapon then UBC's are just another unenforceable law.

2 guns or 2000 guns...these people ignore the law and sell to criminals. That's not only illegal - it's immoral. Some of the family is opening a new store and I won't do business with them either. Not going to change my mind. I take this stuff pretty seriously.

You're conflating this issue with UBCs and that's not the topic of this thread nor something I care to discuss - as it's been beat to death on this board.