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The last word on MSNBC
https://www.waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=14894		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  TacticalAssault [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  The last word on MSNBC
William Buzzard a former ATF agent was just saying that a person could go in and buy 50 AK type weapons and the ATF would have NO idea. That guy could then go and buy 25 more down the street and again the ATF would have no idea.

Um...last time I checked FFL dealers were required to turn in what's called a multiple purchase report when someone buys....multiple guns. What a bunch of one sided bullshit these guys spew. I don't EVER watch this shit, it was just on when I turned the TV on so I listened for a minute because they were discussing the NRA. No wonder Anti's live in a fantasy world. The shit these guys were spewing is a JOKE at best. :throwup:
Author:  Px4er [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The last word on MSNBC
MSNBC. 'Nuff said.
Author:  Selador [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The last word on MSNBC
TacticalAssault wrote:
No wonder Anti's live in a fantasy world. The shit these guys were spewing is a JOKE at best. :throwup:

Makes you wish there were a media outlet that people of the opposition would actually LISTEN to, or watch.... Where you could present just the facts, to try to rebut these kinds of lies/tactics.

But everything, even the media is just so partisan/one-sided any more...
Author:  foothills [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The last word on MSNBC
Multiple sales reporting only applies to handguns...unless you live in a State that borders Mexico. Then multiple sales of centerfire semi-auto rifles have to be reported.

He's right Brandon.

And...The southern states reporting only came as a result of the Fast and Furious debacle. That was an Executive order I believe by Odumdo. But I'm not sure.
Author:  Massivedesign [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The last word on MSNBC
icon_eek icon_eek icon_eek
Author:  General Nonsense [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The last word on MSNBC
True, and NICS is run by the FBI, so yes, the ATF wouldn't know about it, but the FBI would. Many people assume that the ATF has its hand in everything firearms related, in reality there is a division of powers. So while the ATF wouldn't know, the FBI would. Since a 4473 only has enough room for 4 firearms, that means that there would be at least 10 calls to NICS for those transactions, so the FBI would be tracking the sales. ATF inspects dealers, it doesn't really have much of anything to do with citizens.
Author:  TacticalAssault [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The last word on MSNBC
Yeah I forgot to mention that in this case they were actually talking about border states and FnF. So he was both right and wrong. Either way the shit was complete garbage.
Author:  TINCANBANDIT [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The last word on MSNBC
ummmm who gives a shit if the guy wanted to buy 10000 AK-47s??? If he is not otherwise prohibited and has no criminal intent? Perhaps he is investing in futures? AK futures, perhaps we should solicit the futures market to add AK-47s along with pork bellies, gasoline and heating oil??
Author:  foothills [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The last word on MSNBC
General Nonsense wrote:
True, and NICS is run by the FBI, so yes, the ATF wouldn't know about it, but the FBI would. Many people assume that the ATF has its hand in everything firearms related, in reality there is a division of powers. So while the ATF wouldn't know, the FBI would. Since a 4473 only has enough room for 4 firearms, that means that there would be at least 10 calls to NICS for those transactions, so the FBI would be tracking the sales. ATF inspects dealers, it doesn't really have much of anything to do with citizens.



Buying 1,000 long guns of any type only involves 1 NICS check. If you don't have enough room on the original 4473 you are to attach a detailed list of all additional guns on the back of the 4473.

When a call is placed to NICS the quantity of guns purchased is NOT given nor asked. ONLY the type (long gun, handgun, other). Also...all NICS checks are purged from the system after 24 hours. That is why guys who get delayed keep getting delayed. Because there is no record of their prior purchases. If you get a UPIN (unique personal identification number) by going thru the VAF (voluntary appeal file) you're volunteering to let your purchases be recorded, that allows the NICS examiner to see that you have a history of "proceed" transactions. This will 99.9% of the time will get you a "proceed" without having to wait thru a "delay".

So back to the OP...No agency knows how many guns (long) you are buying at one time. Only the FFL, and the 4473 you fill out with him stays with him till he goes out of business or death do you part. Then all records have to be forwarded to ATF.
Author:  General Nonsense [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The last word on MSNBC
Thanks you for clarifying
Author:  BadKarma [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The last word on MSNBC
I hope they slip and fall into a puddle of AIDS.
Author:  never_to_much [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The last word on MSNBC
These people are all really fucking stupid. They are correct at giving false information and misleading people and reports are not reporting anymore they are fear mongering reps.
Author:  Selador [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The last word on MSNBC
BadKarma wrote:
I hope they slip and fall into a puddle of AIDS.

:ROFLMAO: :rofl9: :ROFLMAO: :rofl9: :ROFLMAO:

Thanks. I needed the laugh.
Author:  metal [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The last word on MSNBC
foothills wrote:
.No agency knows how many guns (long) you are buying at one time. Only the FFL, and the 4473 you fill out with him stays with him till he goes out of business or death do you part. Then all records have to be forwarded to ATF.


This is the part of the process I was (am?) a little unclear about. My local FFL (well, pawn shop, so..) claimed that he keeps the 4473 until he goes out of business, at which point he has to send the boxes to Olympia. So, two questions come to mind.

1. What prevents FFLs from sending those forms to the government, other than a healthy distrust and dislike of said government?

2. If various bans are proposed, a lot of gun stores will most likely go out of business. That would force them to send the 4473s in. Seems like a slippery slope.

3. Can something be imposed on the FFLs to send those forms in if/when some ban is enacted?

Pardon my ignorance, and thank you for all of the information.
Author:  foothills [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The last word on MSNBC
metal wrote:
foothills wrote:
.No agency knows how many guns (long) you are buying at one time. Only the FFL, and the 4473 you fill out with him stays with him till he goes out of business or death do you part. Then all records have to be forwarded to ATF.


This is the part of the process I was (am?) a little unclear about. My local FFL (well, pawn shop, so..) claimed that he keeps the 4473 until he goes out of business, at which point he has to send the boxes to Olympia. So, two questions come to mind.

1. What prevents FFLs from sending those forms to the government, other than a healthy distrust and dislike of said government?

2. If various bans are proposed, a lot of gun stores will most likely go out of business. That would force them to send the 4473s in. Seems like a slippery slope.

3. Can something be imposed on the FFLs to send those forms in if/when some ban is enacted?

Pardon my ignorance, and thank you for all of the information.



Upon discontinuance of business an FFL is required to forward his bound A&D (acquisition and disposition) books along with all other pertainent records such form 4473's and multiple handgun purchase records to the BATFE records office in I believe in Virginia.

Those are Federal documents and do not go to the State.

I wish my crystal ball would let me know what would or might happen if any of this NFA hocus pocus is implemented.

All I see in the crystal ball is dark and difficult times ahead for 2nder's :diggin:
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