It's not important at all for me. The primer issues I've seen would not be helped by second strike, as the firing pin hits the same spot as before. The likelihood of hitting it with enough force after it's already been dimpled and not gone off is close to zero IMHO
Now where in the world did you learn that? Shooting guns in matches that simulate potential defensive situations?
I got that from all shooting that I have done. If a round doesn't go off, I eject it and look (not in competition obviously). I see that the primer is dimpled, and I reload it and try it again. I don't recall any of them going off in the same gun after that. they might in a different gun, but not the first one.
Great point, I've only seen two rounds fail to go off. One only went off in another gun, and the other didn't go off in any gun. So second strike capability in the last ~10 thousand rounds I've seen would not have helped.
My understanding is that SD ammo should be.. more reliable.
Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:29 pm
dreadi
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Tacoma, Washington Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 Posts: 8351
It's not important at all for me. The primer issues I've seen would not be helped by second strike, as the firing pin hits the same spot as before. The likelihood of hitting it with enough force after it's already been dimpled and not gone off is close to zero IMHO
Now where in the world did you learn that? Shooting guns in matches that simulate potential defensive situations?
I got that from all shooting that I have done. If a round doesn't go off, I eject it and look (not in competition obviously). I see that the primer is dimpled, and I reload it and try it again. I don't recall any of them going off in the same gun after that. they might in a different gun, but not the first one.
Great point, I've only seen two rounds fail to go off. One only went off in another gun, and the other didn't go off in any gun. So second strike capability in the last ~10 thousand rounds I've seen would not have helped.
My understanding is that SD ammo should be.. more reliable.
Should be. Last summer I watched a LEO try to run his department issued ammo throw a pistol his department approved. Gun would not run with that ammo.
As a follow up, the OP I posted was about carry and self defense handguns.
If I have a failure at the range, I indeed carefully inspect the gun and ammo to ensure safety, learn what happened, and note that a particular gun or ammo has an issue to either correct or address it with the gun or ammo or the companies that made them. That seems quite natural.
When you're under the duress of life/death threat and seconds count, the question really boils down to whether your remedial action is to 1) squeeze again or 2) tap/rack/bang.
Let's assume that here's the scenario. A man with a large knife is 20 feet away, threatening you, and charges at you. You draw, aim, and click. You have only time to do 1 action before he is on you and stabbing you. What do you do?
As I've weighed this scenario and replies here, I think the correct action - if it's your last life saving action or mistaken action - is to tap rack bang drill. This will offer greater certainty of fixing the problem (dead primer, empty chamber, no gun powder in cartridge, etc.). Second strike will ONLY remedy 1 problem - a light primer strike - and there's no guarantee a 2nd strike will remedy it. Second strike won't fix a bad cartridge or empty chamber issue.
IF the problem is a squib load, neither remedies will fix it and you're getting stabbed. In that case hopefully you're at peace with your maker and have some grappling skills.
_________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.
Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:20 pm
hartcreek
Location: Union Gap Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 Posts: 1722
Real Name: Randall Knapp
I do not see any of us having the light primer strikes that I am seeing in the forums. We are mostly of an age we read books and have deckades of shooting and reloading under our belts but this new breed.........Good grief they think they can reload with out reading a damned book. And the stupid problems that they are having over and over again and then a week later another idiot will have the same blasted problem.
Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:26 pm
JohnMBrowning
Location: Bothell Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 Posts: 4872
I picked up a case of S&B 9mm years ago that would have at least 1 if not 2 rounds fail to fire out of every mag in my baby eagle.... It was range ammo, so it was only annoying. Asking around, I was told that S&B is known to have 'harder' primers, and being that my beagle has such a smooth trigger, I'm guessing its got light(er) main spring. I could run the ammo thru any of the range guns without any issue, but always had 1-2 fail to ignite in my gun.... I used it quickly and vowed to never buy it again in 9mm --- never had any problems with their 40 S&W.
I don't believe I ever tried an immediate second strike --- I would wait 10-15 seconds and eject and inspect - they all had good dimples from the firing pin. I'd collect all from the session and reload into a mag and most would fire on the second strike - some would have to be loaded again.
Thats the only time I've had any issues with 'no bang' over 30+ cases of 9 and 40.
_________________ Plan B is actually repeating Plan A.... it just involves much more alcohol.
Of the ten voices I hear in my head, only three keep telling me NOT to shoot.... Do I go with the majority or common sense?
Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:12 pm
lobo
Site Supporter
Location: Ruston Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 Posts: 99
I picked up a case of S&B 9mm years ago that would have at least 1 if not 2 rounds fail to fire out of every mag in my baby eagle.... It was range ammo, so it was only annoying. Asking around, I was told that S&B is known to have 'harder' primers, and being that my beagle has such a smooth trigger, I'm guessing its got light(er) main spring. I could run the ammo thru any of the range guns without any issue, but always had 1-2 fail to ignite in my gun.... I used it quickly and vowed to never buy it again in 9mm --- never had any problems with their 40 S&W.
I don't believe I ever tried an immediate second strike --- I would wait 10-15 seconds and eject and inspect - they all had good dimples from the firing pin. I'd collect all from the session and reload into a mag and most would fire on the second strike - some would have to be loaded again.
Thats the only time I've had any issues with 'no bang' over 30+ cases of 9 and 40.
Why would you wait 10 to 15 seconds? It's not like there's a fuse on the round
_________________ If she sits on your face and you can still hear, SHE'S NOT FAT.
I'm going to type out 3 paragraphs and wax eloquently about a similar story in my life. Pm me if you figured it out.
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:29 am
JohnMBrowning
Location: Bothell Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 Posts: 4872
You know, I'm not really sure.... because someone had told me thats what you are supposed to do ???? Maybe it was an 'old husbands' tale... possibly going back to some the black powder cartridge days? Or a damp powder thats just smoldering? I remember hearing it from several sources way back when.... In retrospect, it does sound pretty silly. I know my neighbor picked up a couple of bulk boxes of Rem 22 that had lots of duds -- went to the range with him a couple of times and he would wait the full 15 seconds each time -- pretty effing annoying --- I finally said the hell with it and ejected immediately just to piss him off.
_________________ Plan B is actually repeating Plan A.... it just involves much more alcohol.
Of the ten voices I hear in my head, only three keep telling me NOT to shoot.... Do I go with the majority or common sense?
I was taught to wait 10 seconds after a misfire before ejecting the round. I have been teaching that to students also.
A few years back I thought I got a nice bargain on some old Egyptian 8mm ammo. About 1/3 to 1/2 had either a hangfire or a misfire. The hangfires weren't very long... maybe 2 seconds at the most, but it was enough to reinforce that there should be a delay in ejecting the round unless you're in a life threatening situation.
Some of you guys have probably seen the video of that idiot who had a hangfire in his 12ga pump. He fires at a can on the ground, but the round doesn't go off. He stands the shotgun on its butt, looks down the barrel, and the round goes off and blows a hole through the bill of his hat. The delay was several seconds. After watching that, I'm cautious about rounds that don't go bang. Give them a little time before ejecting them...it could be worth the wait. And don't inspect it from the muzzle.
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:53 am
danoh
Site Supporter
Location: Sumner, WA Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 Posts: 3025
Real Name: Dan
Some of you guys have probably seen the video of that idiot who had a hangfire in his 12ga pump. He fires at a can on the ground, but the round doesn't go off. He stands the shotgun on its butt, looks down the barrel, and the round goes off and blows a hole through the bill of his hat. The delay was several seconds. After watching that, I'm cautious about rounds that don't go bang. Give them a little time before ejecting them...it could be worth the wait. And don't inspect it from the muzzle.
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