Found this link in another thread on this forum:

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-i-nolo-living-trust-gun-trust.html

Apparently, Nolo explicitly advises prospective Quicken WillMaker customers NOT to use it for a gun trust.



Edit to add: Nolo is a marketing partner of Intuit, which owns the Quicken financial and legal products line. Source: http://web.intuit.com/about_intuit/press_releases/2001/08-15.html

I have a Silver Firearm Trust from NW Gun Law Group. It's a binder.



Now NWRed...

You have obviously processed your NFA item(s) via one of these blank trust. Do know several thousand have also done the same. I am lets say more vested in what I have and to hang myself on the limb of a piece of paper isn't what I advise.

I have given both points. Folks can get a NFA item using a simple 1 page "trust" from online or even a NFA dealer... it's pure and simple. Does the job of getting you through the NFA process.

IT's After that concerns me. I am older and know better. It's not just the instant gratification but the LIFE for me and my family... putting anything at risk merely to save a few bucks is a joke.

But like I have said from post one... it's your ASSets on the line not mine.
Just be informed and make an informed decision as an adult... because the rules and consequences are for keeps.

I also have a Silver Trust from the same outfit. I was advised not to list non-NFA items on Schedule A. My trust does own several non-NFA items, though. Instead, I was given different legal advice about how to legally document my non-NFA trust property without having to disclose it to ATF every time I send them a copy of my trust with the paperwork for a new trust purchase. That advice included an explanation of a subtle but important nuance in trust design that helps me document my trust property while preserving its privacy, and that is part of what my money paid for. You won't get the same advice with a quickie/cheapo trust.

Actually the NFA examiners do check for validity of the trust based on each states' laws. Your trust will be kicked back if it isn't valid. If I recall correctly, a trust in WA is valid if it has a grantor, assets and beneficiaries. Check the RCW, it's pretty clear.

With that said, the NFA examiners do not check if the trust makes any sense (legally or otherwise) or actually protects the assets or your family from any issues after your incapacity/death.

This is what I meant by validity. Thanks for clarifying.

In the Silver Firearm Trust, how many pages are simply copies of firearms related laws or instructions to your trustees and beneficiaries on the legalities of the firearms held by the Trust? Do the number of pages in a Trust make it better since there seems to be some derision of a valid 1 page Trust?

If your trust owns property besides the NFA items why wouldn't you list it on the schedule A? If you're concerned about the privacy of the Trust's assets when using the Trust to purchase NFA items, why wouldn't you just create another trust for holding those assets?

The advice I give people, and I'm clearly not attorney since I give the Trust template away for free and don't charge for my opinions, is to keep their personal assets separated in the event there is a legal challenge. Same principle as not being a sole proprietor business owner without having an LLC or Corp to protect your personal assets separate from the business.

You seem to think that you have more to lose than other people, and that you've spent more time thinking about this than other people. And apparently that anyone who doesn't heed your advice to pay $500 to NWGunlaw and get a registered trademarked Trust ( does your Trust have Gundocx in the name?) isn't making an informed decision "as an adult". The condescension is noted, however for the sole purpose of holding NFA assets I'm not seeing a reason to use an attorney to set up a Trust in WA.

The Silver Trust I've seen are 36 pages long. The whole entire packet is much bigger. It's written in the very legalese way, with everything defined, explained, itemized, etc etc etc.

I'd be interested in your template though, too. Thanks!

Well, I'm happy to report I'm glad you got that part.

To make it clear I consider folks that don't use a proper trust that have things to lose... a fool and only their own fault if something goes wrong.

As I have stated before... it's your Assets not mine.

Thanks for contributing your valuable insight into this matter. Now that we've ascertained you have no faith in your own abilities or that of the trust you purchased. It's obvious that the main selling point was the future legal counsel should there be a fatal flaw in your trusts legal instruments. I'm suspect at this point that you even have a trust, brislawn paid or otherwise, based on your lack of specific answers to the questions in previous posts.

So how much of a discount did Brislawn give you to be a shill for him?

What EXACTLY could go wrong with a valid NFA-only trust that currently has NFA assets? Give me a specific concrete example from the real world -with court documentation- where a Trust ran into uncorrectable legal issues that stemmed directly from the legal instruments that created the Trust and required a defense attorney to protect the Grantor, Trustees, or Beneficiary from prosecution.

Until you can prove theres genuine potential legal repurcussions from not using prepaid legal counsel to fill in the blanks on a trust form, I'd appreciate you not derail my thread any further with your shilling for Brislawn and your "better than you" attitude towards people who choose different ways to do things.

Some relaxation would be good here, for everyone.

There are advantages to both types of trust, obviously. Free and plentiful is good . . . lots of legal goodness is also good. It's good to hear both sides.

Let's chill and stick to the helpful info, please.

Agreed, civility is key.

It sounds to me like there are 2 schools of thought being promoted here for establishing NFA trusts. The way I see it, those promoting the DIY approach seem more focused on acquisition of NFA items, whereas those promoting the attorney approach seem more focused on long-term asset protection. Not that you can't secure asset protection through a DIY trust, but the attorney approach is more likely (IMHO) to stand up to legal scrutiny and/or challenges.

If you are looking to save money and are confident in your ability to create a sound NFA trust, the DIY approach might be right for you. If you are looking for peace of mind and money is less of an issue, the attorney approach might be right for you. I won't say that either one is right or wrong. What I will say is that while the DIY approach might be cheaper, the attorney approach is probably less risky (provided you select a reputable attorney). With that, I think I'm done here. Thanks for the lively discussion, everyone. Merry Christmas!

So long as each person can make their own choice.

It's up to the individual as again... I'm a broken record.

It's your Assets on the line, not mine.

Has anyone commenting on this thread read the template NWRed is offering?

It's fairly well written, to be honest.

I'm not doubting its well written and would most likely be passed by ATF to get a NFA item.

My concern is again... what happens after and during your life and onward. Basically a one to two page trust has been used and has passed ATF in the past.

I'm not a lawyer and the problem as I see it and my concern for others is... what happens (if anything) if something is wrong with it or something changes later (after) you get your NFA item and then... who is stuck holding the bag.

I'm not 20... no one has to ever remind me of that simple fact. I'm not just looking at right NOW but what about later.

Again, if this doesn't concern you and you are 21 and have no assets.. and/or are willing to use it.

No one is stopping you contacting the OP.