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What the hell - SBR Form 1 Rejected
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ANZAC
Site Supporter
Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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Guns4Liberty wrote: ANZAC wrote: By "acquiring" and "own build", you mean acquiring a lower and then building an SBR from it? So the ATF is coming up with their own interpretation of WA's "manufacture" definition? Precisely...although I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the state AG quietly provided an opinion to DOJ, and that's why BATFE is now reversing course on Form 1 applications. I looked on the AG web site and no opinions on firearm related stuff for 2014-2015. I think their opinions are required to be public IIRC. But the DOJ/ATF would have standing to ask the WA AG.
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Thu May 28, 2015 7:48 am |
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rstrobel
Location: Edmonds Joined: Fri Jun 7, 2013 Posts: 288
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ANZAC wrote: Guns4Liberty wrote: I looked on the AG web site and no opinions on firearm related stuff for 2014-2015. I think their opinions are required to be public IIRC.
But the DOJ/ATF would have standing to ask the WA AG.
I looked at the ATF site too and didn't see anything, although they do occasionally publish their press releases after they have already started enforcing new rules. The 7N6 ban was enforced for several weeks before the press release was issued. Anything is speculation at this point, it could just be one agent decided to interpret the law on his own... or the whole thing could have been done in error.
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Thu May 28, 2015 7:53 am |
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Guns4Liberty
Site Supporter
Location: Lynnwood/Bothell Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 Posts: 8566
Real Name: Curtis
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rstrobel wrote: I suspect that we have been burned by another stupid request for an opinion letter from the ATF, similar to the sig brace situation... If you ask them enough times whether it's illegal or not and point out flaws in the law, eventually they're going to say yes. I'm assuming that other agents won't be able to tell us why Ted Clutter rejected our forms, right? What a joke... I have two SLR-104URs that are not of any use to me in their current configuration... Yes, but remember - BATFE is really only concerned with federal law, while at the same time trying not to step on the states' toes by respecting their more restrictive laws on firearms. So for BATFE to have approved so many WA Form 1 SBRs already, only to now disapprove them en masse, someone with some standing/say-so must have weighed in. Either that or this Ted Clutter fellow is a rogue federal agent acting on his own misguided interpretation of a state law.
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Thu May 28, 2015 7:54 am |
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Benja455
Site Supporter
Location: White Center Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 6489
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Guns4Liberty wrote: Yes, but remember - BATFE is really only concerned with federal law, while at the same time trying not to step on the states' toes by respecting their more restrictive laws on firearms. So for BATFE to have approved so many WA Form 1 SBRs already, only to now disapprove them en masse, someone with some standing/say-so must have weighed in. Either that or this Ted Clutter fellow is a rogue federal agent acting on his own misguided interpretation of a state law. Correct. I'm beginning to think either it's a big mistake or Ted had a bit too much to drink last night and went off the reservation. There's no way they would start rejecting SBRs after approving them for so long...especially considering that the wording issue probably wouldn't standing up a legal challenge.
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Thu May 28, 2015 8:07 am |
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deadshot2
Site Supporter
Location: Marysville, WA Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
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tannardog wrote: I wonder if our AG issued the states opinion (quietly) and the feds shut the door on us? With WA's laws regarding open records I seriously doubt it. A quick check of he AG's 2015 Opinions shows nothing of the sort. Even nothing in 2014. Speculation, not much more.
_________________ "I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother" - William Shakespeare
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Thu May 28, 2015 8:24 am |
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lionhrt
Site Supporter
Location: Skagit county Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 Posts: 1389
Real Name: Dave
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Maybe Ted caught his wife blowing his best friend and he decided if his day was ruined he was going to ruin everyone else`s day and now he is taking today off to contact a divorce lawyer.
_________________kf7mjf wrote: WaGuns Clue.
It was a Night Op in the library with an AK Pistol by TW...
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Thu May 28, 2015 8:31 am |
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lamrith
Site Supporter
Location: Tacoma/Puyallup Joined: Tue May 8, 2012 Posts: 4340
Real Name: Larry
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Guns4Liberty wrote: rstrobel wrote: I suspect that we have been burned by another stupid request for an opinion letter from the ATF, similar to the sig brace situation... If you ask them enough times whether it's illegal or not and point out flaws in the law, eventually they're going to say yes. I'm assuming that other agents won't be able to tell us why Ted Clutter rejected our forms, right? What a joke... I have two SLR-104URs that are not of any use to me in their current configuration... Yes, but remember - BATFE is really only concerned with federal law, while at the same time trying not to step on the states' toes by respecting their more restrictive laws on firearms. So for BATFE to have approved so many WA Form 1 SBRs already, only to now disapprove them en masse, someone with some standing/say-so must have weighed in. Either that or this Ted Clutter fellow is a rogue federal agent acting on his own misguided interpretation of a state law. What is troubling is why he CHANGED stance, knowing that he personally approved some as late as Sunday 5/24?
_________________Talons wrote: it's too plastic, even for me. it's like old, overworked, plastic everywhere old pornwhore amounts of plastic.
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Thu May 28, 2015 8:32 am |
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Massivedesign
Site Admin
Location: Olympia, WA Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 38315
Real Name: Dan
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I am thinking Ted may be on his way out.. Personal act of sabotage as a last hurrah. Blanket deny a LARGE number of applications, then take the next day off? This is what I am imagining happening last night.
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Thu May 28, 2015 8:35 am |
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Guns4Liberty
Site Supporter
Location: Lynnwood/Bothell Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 Posts: 8566
Real Name: Curtis
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lamrith wrote: What is troubling is why he CHANGED stance, knowing that he personally approved some as late as Sunday 5/24? He did? What a no-talent ass clown! If that's true, then it really does sound like he went off the reservation.
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Thu May 28, 2015 8:36 am |
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lamrith
Site Supporter
Location: Tacoma/Puyallup Joined: Tue May 8, 2012 Posts: 4340
Real Name: Larry
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Guns4Liberty wrote: lamrith wrote: What is troubling is why he CHANGED stance, knowing that he personally approved some as late as Sunday 5/24? He did? What a no-talent ass clown! If that's true, then it really does sound like he went off the reservation. Yup: tannardog wrote: Damn, my stamp was issued Sunday, May 24th by none other than Ted Clutter. The Ted is unmistakable, the last name looks like a C-L_????. No matter what it is, this sucks balls. I am one paycheck away from submitting another, but I think I will hold off. I wonder if our AG issued the states opinion (quietly) and the feds shut the door on us? Maybe RanB or Dogfish have heard something?
_________________Talons wrote: it's too plastic, even for me. it's like old, overworked, plastic everywhere old pornwhore amounts of plastic.
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Thu May 28, 2015 8:48 am |
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cramer
Site Supporter
Location: Olympia Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 Posts: 146
Real Name: Chris
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Benja455 wrote: By the way - my Form 1 wasn't rejected...it's still pending. It was submitted 5/10/15.
Mine is still pending from 5/4 as well. I suspect he could only "batch" deny so many forms. I'm betting there will be additional rounds of rejections.
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Thu May 28, 2015 8:51 am |
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never_to_much
Site Supporter
Location: Snohomish Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 2034
Real Name: Steven
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We're others in other states denied or was this all just for Washington state residents I have no way to find out. Looks like I'm going to stay with the sig brace until the state fixes their law.
_________________ Everyone that voted for 594 is a motherfucking moron
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Thu May 28, 2015 9:05 am |
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guncruiser
Site Supporter
Location: Seattle, Bellevue, Kirkland, Everett, Lynnwood at various times Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 Posts: 1668
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So this is interesting. What the heck?? Are they going to come knock on your door if yours got approved and ask you to hand over your SBRs. If not, then the rejections are arbitrary and won't hold up to scrutiny. Something is odd here. This can't be at the discretion of the ATF.
_________________Life Member, Second Amendment FoundationBenefactor, NRA
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Thu May 28, 2015 9:08 am |
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guncruiser
Site Supporter
Location: Seattle, Bellevue, Kirkland, Everett, Lynnwood at various times Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 Posts: 1668
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never_to_much wrote: We're others in other states denied or was this all just for Washington state residents I have no way to find out. Looks like I'm going to stay with the sig brace until the state fixes their law. I suspect WA only since it specifically mentions our state law.
_________________Life Member, Second Amendment FoundationBenefactor, NRA
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Thu May 28, 2015 9:09 am |
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Sinus211
Site Moderator
Location: Marysville Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 Posts: 13508
Real Name: Mike
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guncruiser wrote: So this is interesting. What the heck?? Are they going to come knock on your door if yours got approved and ask you to hand over your SBRs. If not, then the rejections are arbitrary and won't hold up to scrutiny. Something is odd here. This can't be at the discretion of the ATF. I'll just un pin the upper from the lower. What SBR?
_________________Licensed/Bonded/Insured Hardwood Floor Installer/Finisher http://www.hardwoodfloorsnw.com/
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Thu May 28, 2015 9:17 am |
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