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 What the hell - SBR Form 1 Rejected 
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Guns4Liberty wrote:
ANZAC wrote:
By "acquiring" and "own build", you mean acquiring a lower and then building an SBR from it?
So the ATF is coming up with their own interpretation of WA's "manufacture" definition?

Precisely...although I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the state AG quietly provided an opinion to DOJ, and that's why BATFE is now reversing course on Form 1 applications.


I looked on the AG web site and no opinions on firearm related stuff for 2014-2015. I think their opinions are required to be public IIRC.

But the DOJ/ATF would have standing to ask the WA AG.


Thu May 28, 2015 7:48 am
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ANZAC wrote:
Guns4Liberty wrote:

I looked on the AG web site and no opinions on firearm related stuff for 2014-2015. I think their opinions are required to be public IIRC.

But the DOJ/ATF would have standing to ask the WA AG.


I looked at the ATF site too and didn't see anything, although they do occasionally publish their press releases after they have already started enforcing new rules. The 7N6 ban was enforced for several weeks before the press release was issued.

Anything is speculation at this point, it could just be one agent decided to interpret the law on his own... or the whole thing could have been done in error.


Thu May 28, 2015 7:53 am
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rstrobel wrote:
I suspect that we have been burned by another stupid request for an opinion letter from the ATF, similar to the sig brace situation... If you ask them enough times whether it's illegal or not and point out flaws in the law, eventually they're going to say yes.

I'm assuming that other agents won't be able to tell us why Ted Clutter rejected our forms, right? What a joke... I have two SLR-104URs that are not of any use to me in their current configuration... :cussing:

Yes, but remember - BATFE is really only concerned with federal law, while at the same time trying not to step on the states' toes by respecting their more restrictive laws on firearms. So for BATFE to have approved so many WA Form 1 SBRs already, only to now disapprove them en masse, someone with some standing/say-so must have weighed in. Either that or this Ted Clutter fellow is a rogue federal agent acting on his own misguided interpretation of a state law.


Thu May 28, 2015 7:54 am
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Guns4Liberty wrote:
Yes, but remember - BATFE is really only concerned with federal law, while at the same time trying not to step on the states' toes by respecting their more restrictive laws on firearms. So for BATFE to have approved so many WA Form 1 SBRs already, only to now disapprove them en masse, someone with some standing/say-so must have weighed in. Either that or this Ted Clutter fellow is a rogue federal agent acting on his own misguided interpretation of a state law.


Correct. I'm beginning to think either it's a big mistake or Ted had a bit too much to drink last night and went off the reservation.

There's no way they would start rejecting SBRs after approving them for so long...especially considering that the wording issue probably wouldn't standing up a legal challenge.


Thu May 28, 2015 8:07 am
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tannardog wrote:
I wonder if our AG issued the states opinion (quietly) and the feds shut the door on us?


With WA's laws regarding open records I seriously doubt it. A quick check of he AG's 2015 Opinions shows nothing of the sort. Even nothing in 2014.

Speculation, not much more.

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Thu May 28, 2015 8:24 am
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Maybe Ted caught his wife blowing his best friend and he decided if his day was ruined he was going to ruin everyone else`s day and now he is taking today off to contact a divorce lawyer.

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Thu May 28, 2015 8:31 am
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Guns4Liberty wrote:
rstrobel wrote:
I suspect that we have been burned by another stupid request for an opinion letter from the ATF, similar to the sig brace situation... If you ask them enough times whether it's illegal or not and point out flaws in the law, eventually they're going to say yes.

I'm assuming that other agents won't be able to tell us why Ted Clutter rejected our forms, right? What a joke... I have two SLR-104URs that are not of any use to me in their current configuration... :cussing:

Yes, but remember - BATFE is really only concerned with federal law, while at the same time trying not to step on the states' toes by respecting their more restrictive laws on firearms. So for BATFE to have approved so many WA Form 1 SBRs already, only to now disapprove them en masse, someone with some standing/say-so must have weighed in. Either that or this Ted Clutter fellow is a rogue federal agent acting on his own misguided interpretation of a state law.

What is troubling is why he CHANGED stance, knowing that he personally approved some as late as Sunday 5/24?

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Thu May 28, 2015 8:32 am
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I am thinking Ted may be on his way out.. Personal act of sabotage as a last hurrah. Blanket deny a LARGE number of applications, then take the next day off?

This is what I am imagining happening last night.
Image


Thu May 28, 2015 8:35 am
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lamrith wrote:
What is troubling is why he CHANGED stance, knowing that he personally approved some as late as Sunday 5/24?

He did? What a no-talent ass clown! If that's true, then it really does sound like he went off the reservation.


Thu May 28, 2015 8:36 am
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Guns4Liberty wrote:
lamrith wrote:
What is troubling is why he CHANGED stance, knowing that he personally approved some as late as Sunday 5/24?

He did? What a no-talent ass clown! If that's true, then it really does sound like he went off the reservation.

Yup:
tannardog wrote:
Damn, my stamp was issued Sunday, May 24th by none other than Ted Clutter. The Ted is unmistakable, the last name looks like a C-L_????. No matter what it is, this sucks balls. I am one paycheck away from submitting another, but I think I will hold off. I wonder if our AG issued the states opinion (quietly) and the feds shut the door on us? Maybe RanB or Dogfish have heard something?

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Thu May 28, 2015 8:48 am
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Benja455 wrote:

By the way - my Form 1 wasn't rejected...it's still pending. It was submitted 5/10/15.


Mine is still pending from 5/4 as well.

I suspect he could only "batch" deny so many forms. I'm betting there will be additional rounds of rejections.


Thu May 28, 2015 8:51 am
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We're others in other states denied or was this all just for Washington state residents I have no way to find out. Looks like I'm going to stay with the sig brace until the state fixes their law.

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Thu May 28, 2015 9:05 am
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So this is interesting. What the heck?? Are they going to come knock on your door if yours got approved and ask you to hand over your SBRs. If not, then the rejections are arbitrary and won't hold up to scrutiny. Something is odd here. This can't be at the discretion of the ATF.

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Thu May 28, 2015 9:08 am
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never_to_much wrote:
We're others in other states denied or was this all just for Washington state residents I have no way to find out. Looks like I'm going to stay with the sig brace until the state fixes their law.

I suspect WA only since it specifically mentions our state law.

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Thu May 28, 2015 9:09 am
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guncruiser wrote:
So this is interesting. What the heck?? Are they going to come knock on your door if yours got approved and ask you to hand over your SBRs. If not, then the rejections are arbitrary and won't hold up to scrutiny. Something is odd here. This can't be at the discretion of the ATF.


I'll just un pin the upper from the lower. What SBR?

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Thu May 28, 2015 9:17 am
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