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Discussion or advice on how to create an Illegal NFA item will result in an immediate ban. No advice given within should replace user due diligence. Always consult a lawyer / professional.
When is a silencer not a silencer?
Moderator: dj_fatstyles
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When is a silencer not a silencer?
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In Memoriam   Location: South King County, WA Joined: Thu Dec 8, 2011 Posts: 5846 
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Facts, as I see them:
1. ATF relies on this USC* definition: ". . . any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm . . . ." 2. A CO2 rifle is not a firearm. QED, a silencer for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a CO2 rifle would not be a silencer, and would therefore not require a Form 1 to make. Seems a lot could be learned about sound cancellation by building cans for a CO2 rifle prior to going Form 1 to make a silencer for a firearm. Is there a Boy Scout badge for acoustic engineering? Might make a great Science Fair project for a high schooler, too.  ___________________ * https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/guides/gun-control-act-definition-silencer _________________ M D "Doc" Nugent NRA RSO Synopsis of Rules for Radicals: http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm "Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds" - Bob Marley 104th Division  Timberwolves |
| Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:58 am |
 
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Site Supporter  Location: Marysville, WA Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 Posts: 11581 Real Name: Mike
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"When is a silencer not a silencer?"
When it' installed on just about any rifle shooting full load ammo. _________________ "I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother" - William Shakespeare |
| Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:29 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Graham Joined: Sun Sep 4, 2011 Posts: 2222
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Hmmm "portable" you say?
So if a person can't move it around without help...its not a suppressor? So a semi auto M2 with tripod can legally be suppressed? The military doesn't consider it "portable"! Yes pellet guns are an option...but check the city and county laws...some places have banned the firing of air guns in the city. Seattle of course made it illegal to shoot one in public....cause its a weapon! Quote: SMC 12A.14.083 Weapons in public places. A. It is unlawful to knowingly carry or shoot any spring gun, air gun, sling or slingshot in, upon or onto any public place. B. For purposes of this section, "public place" means an area generally open to the public, regardless of whether it is privately owned, and includes, but is not limited to, streets, sidewalks, bridges, alleys, plazas, parks, parking lots, transit stations, transit vehicles and buildings. (Ord. 123191 , Section 9, 2009; Ord. 119010 Section 10, 1998: Ord. 117569 Section 123, 1995: Ord. 90047 Section 42, 1961.) _________________ What is a Waterbouget? It is that yellow thing in the middle, below my user name. |
| Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:07 am |
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 Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 Posts: 2604
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If it can be used on a real firearm, it's considered a suppressor. Almost every one of the silencers that were made for paintball guns were deemed to be silencers by the ATF because they could somehow be attached to a real gun and supposedly reduced sound.
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| Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:24 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: White Center Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 6489
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Unicorn wrote: If it can be used on a real firearm, it's considered a suppressor. Almost every one of the silencers that were made for paintball guns were deemed to be silencers by the ATF because they could somehow be attached to a real gun and supposedly reduced sound. Unsurprising...the ATF also confiscated some air soft guns claiming they could be converted to real guns. |
| Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:58 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: Olympia Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 Posts: 16044 Real Name: Steve
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H2obouget wrote: Hmmm "portable" you say? So if a person can't move it around without help...its not a suppressor? That does it. I'm building a suppressed howitzer. _________________ "I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." - William Buckley, Jr. "...steam, artillery and revolvers give to civilized man an irresistible power." -Perry Collins |
| Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:37 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771 Real Name: John
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kf7mjf wrote: H2obouget wrote: Hmmm "portable" you say? So if a person can't move it around without help...its not a suppressor? That does it. I'm building a suppressed howitzer. Already been done. You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. _________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it. Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole. NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member |
| Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:28 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Lacey/Olympia/JBLM Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 Posts: 3111 Real Name: Marco
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usrifle wrote: kf7mjf wrote: H2obouget wrote: Hmmm "portable" you say? So if a person can't move it around without help...its not a suppressor? That does it. I'm building a suppressed howitzer. Already been done. WTF is that???  _________________ "Dedication, perseverance, commitment and tenacity are the traits you will find in those who finish and achieve their dreams." There are times when the situation as it occurs, dictates the course of actions that follow. "I stand for the National Anthem, always have, always will" On days like this, I often wonder what Gary Gordon and Randy Shughart would do... |
| Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:11 am |
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Site Supporter Location: Snohomish County Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 Posts: 1146
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SFCRMSA wrote: WTF is that??? It's literally an artillery suppressor. It was constructed by the Rheinmetall corporation so that tanks at gunnery ranges in Germany wouldn't disrupt residental communities nearby. The vehicle hooked to it is the M109G Self-Propelled Howitzer. More: https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/1 ... ing_needs/ |
| Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:32 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Lacey/Olympia/JBLM Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 Posts: 3111 Real Name: Marco
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lunacite wrote: SFCRMSA wrote: WTF is that??? It's literally an artillery suppressor. It was constructed by the Rheinmetall corporation so that tanks at gunnery ranges in Germany wouldn't disrupt residental communities nearby. The vehicle hooked to it is the M109G Self-Propelled Howitzer. More: https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/1 ... ing_needs/ Incredible.  _________________ "Dedication, perseverance, commitment and tenacity are the traits you will find in those who finish and achieve their dreams." There are times when the situation as it occurs, dictates the course of actions that follow. "I stand for the National Anthem, always have, always will" On days like this, I often wonder what Gary Gordon and Randy Shughart would do... |
| Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:47 pm |
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 Location: Belfair, WA Joined: Tue Apr 5, 2011 Posts: 667
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I have a letter form the ATF that says a device mounted on a shooting bench into which a gun barrel is inserted does not meet the federal definition of a silencer.
Randy |
| Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:21 am |
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Site Supporter Location: White Center Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 6489
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Ranb wrote: I have a letter form the ATF that says a device mounted on a shooting bench into which a gun barrel is inserted does not meet the federal definition of a silencer. Randy Permanently mounted on a shooting bench? |
| Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:28 am |
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 Site Admin   Location: Olympia, WA Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 38308 Real Name: Dan
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And by inserted, can that mean threaded? And by mounted, can that mean by string?
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| Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:44 pm |
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Location: Belfair, WA Joined: Tue Apr 5, 2011 Posts: 667
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I wrote this to the BATFE;
Quote: I have been working to amend the Washington State law prohibiting the use of devices that suppress the noise of a firearm. RCW 9.41.259(c) says in part; every person who uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm; is guilty of a gross misdemeanor. I am trying to get an opinion from my state government on whether or not a device that is not attached to the firearm is prohibited by this law. Representative Finn (district 35) wrote to me requesting that I contact the ATF and get their opinion as he felt that the federal government might also restrict devices that are not attached to the firearm but suppress their noise. The device we were discussing was a large insulated box or a row of tires that a rifle barrel is inserted into to help contain the muzzle blast. It is not attached to the firearm like a typical silencer such as those regulated by the NFA of 1934. Does the National Firearms Act or any other federal law regulate or require registration of any device that suppresses firearm noise but is not attached to the firearm? Thank you. Here is page 1 of the reply from the BATFE;  Randy |
| Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:46 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: White Center Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 6489
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Interesting! Thanks, Randy...you are always a treasure trove of fascinating firearms information.
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| Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:00 pm |
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