this
gun in your hands = you are responsible for it

Winner!

See See! Listen to the old guys...wisdom does come with age...

This was a classic case of epic fail...all the way around. But the guy who booger hooked the bang switch is ultimately responsible.

Never been to a show, going to the one in April in Tacoma, not bringing my boys. Wasn't planning on bringing them (to wit: Mum! Can you buy it! Mum! Can you buy this?! Muuuummm!!) but definitely wouldn't now.

And I always presume every gun is loaded at all times until I have personally cleared it. This includes guns out of the case.

Agreed, a safety check at the door is absolutely no carte blanche to disregard the safety rules.

In my classes I ask students "Is this gun loaded?" The answer at the beginning of the class is "I don't know." or "I'll check it"
By the end of the class, my goal is to get a response like this - "It is loaded until I clear it, and then only unloaded as long as the action is open and it hasn't left my hands. As soon as I let go of it, it is loaded again."
The goal is to get a person thinking about a lifestyle change, not about common sense.

Common sense says that a rifle in a gun show, with a zip tie and a colored circular sticker on the tie is unloaded.
It's not "common sense" that we are looking for here... It's a lifestyle change, a more careful way of handling firearms than common sense would indicate.

It's gratifying that so many people here see this as a fundamental error in gun safety.

But consider for a moment - How many of us really follow all of these rules at gun shows?

I don't think ANY of us do. Why? We just demonstrated that a rifle can have a round in the chamber, and someone can pull the trigger and it can go "bang." Do you walk in front of rifles that are pointing out into the aisle? Or down the length of the tables to the ends?
We do this because we have confidence in the firearm community to follow a combination of the safety rules (that are not necessarily common sense) and common sense.

This hand wringing and finger pointing and name calling and wishes for bodily harm to the poor fellow who broke a rule (and probably filled his shorts almost simultaneously) are a healthy sign of how important this is to our community, and I am grateful for it.

But consider that these things will always happen. We are humans, and guns have the potential to be dangerous tools. This ND will be used to brow beat a few security folks and some vendors, and we'll all be more careful for awhile. Maybe some more rules will be added, more stringent checks instituted.

But:

There absolutely WILL be accidental and negligent discharges, there will be bystanders accidentally shot (or near misses) as long as there are firearms in existence.

Smart cavemen hurt their clan buddies with rocks accidentally sometimes.

We have to trust our fellow humans up to a certain point knowing that occasionally some of them will let us down.

I also refuse to accept that "this will happen." We're under tough scrutiny here folks. As a community we need a mentality of "we cannot allow this to happen." Whether that means more screening of vendor weapons or tougher security at or shows. Maybe even rules defining a suspension or expulsion of vendors who violate rules.

These rules are in place for our safety. Yours and mine. A "shit happens"mentality just doesn't cut it for me. Suppose your house gets broken into. Do you say "well, these things happen"? Hell no, you beef up security so it won't happen again.

Its happened in the past and now its happened again. If no changes are made it's only a matter of time before the next incident.

" Was a Savage Model 99 110xxx range that was recalled for bad safety.. This one never made it to recall"
Hey Mohawk13 do you have a link to this recall?

Been trying to find it. It is listed in the Blue Book under notes. Trying to find the actual link, but it was put out before the advent of computers. PM to Savage and will post it when I get it from them....

Human beings were involved here, combination of errors, retardation and negligence & possible mechanical failure....but what do I know, I was only 3 feet away from the muzzle blast . I'm out , gotta go shopping for some new drawers tomorrow...

Wow, that makes me want to go to a gun show.

I'm glad no one got hurt or killed.

This. All the ball busting aside, nobody was hit.

I'd not argue the responsibility of the shooter, but...

What is the point of putting a zip tie on a gun if it means nothing?

I thought the point of using the tie is to show that it's unloaded and inoperable, with a mechanical device to prevent that state from changing.

If we are not to trust the zip tie, including the ones put in place by the professionals running the show, why have them at all? They add a false sense of security that is proven dangerous.


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Ultimately I'm saying a security failure, a loaded long gun should have never made it through the door to be placed into the hands of any vendor, but that aside, all firearms should be treated as loaded... Wether they have a strap or not, and making sure it's not loaded is the first check. Yes, very thankful there was no injuries. The individual (Vietnam vet) is having a hard enough time dealing with this, according to him all he did was cut the strap and the 99 discharged. The rifle was taken outside and the other 3 rounds in the rotary mag were removed w/out another misfire...good times & be responsible

urbanminer, to be honest I thought it came from your table. I looked straight at you but did not see you holding anything. So after that, I didn't know squat until I took the pictures of where the bullet went.

I know most of the details except how the rifle made it into the show loaded, the first customer through the door brought it in and actually had laid the rifle on the security table for 1/2 hr before the show opened so he didn't have to hold it outside in the rain. Possibly it was pre-strapped from the Yakima show that he had last attended??? I never touched the rifle, drilled, tapped and scoped and beat up is not my gig.