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 Can you afford to defend yourself? Ron & Don Talkshow... 
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Real Name: Young

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Post Can you afford to defend yourself? Ron & Don Talkshow...
Quote:
Even in self-defense, can you afford to pull the trigger?

http://mynorthwest.com/108/722147/Even- ... he-trigger

The article covers a case where a guy attending a party got into a fight and shot one of his attackers back in 2007. It runs through his "court cost" of defending himself from a second degree murder charge (criminal and civil). >$250,000

One thing I will say for very clear cut cases of self defense... no charges are typically charged.

In the article they mention that in most cases when a death has occurred... one should expect a charge to be made... One slant to think about is that in most cases shootings are not always clear cut.

For example in this case above... he was at a party (most likely alcohol was involved - I'm not sure about the shooter), multiple "eye witness" with varying accounts, etc.



Quote:
Had he not had his gun on him that night, Bryce Fortier believes he could be dead. Which is why, despite the aftermath, he still carries his pistol.

If he ever finds himself in the same situation, he says he would pull the trigger again - even if he can't afford to.


Found not guilty... so why not sue to have his defense reimbursed?

Quote:
RCW 9A.16.110
Defending against violent crime — Reimbursement.

(1) No person in the state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting by any reasonable means necessary, himself or herself, his or her family, or his or her real or personal property, or for coming to the aid of another who is in imminent danger of or the victim of assault, robbery, kidnapping, arson, burglary, rape, murder, or any other violent crime as defined in RCW 9.94A.030.

(2) When a person charged with a crime listed in subsection (1) of this section is found not guilty by reason of self-defense, the state of Washington shall reimburse the defendant for all reasonable costs, including loss of time, legal fees incurred, and other expenses involved in his or her defense. This reimbursement is not an independent cause of action. To award these reasonable costs the trier of fact must find that the defendant's claim of self-defense was sustained by a preponderance of the evidence. If the trier of fact makes a determination of self-defense, the judge shall determine the amount of the award.

(3) Notwithstanding a finding that a defendant's actions were justified by self-defense, if the trier of fact also determines that the defendant was engaged in criminal conduct substantially related to the events giving rise to the charges filed against the defendant the judge may deny or reduce the amount of the award. In determining the amount of the award, the judge shall also consider the seriousness of the initial criminal conduct.

Nothing in this section precludes the legislature from using the sundry claims process to grant an award where none was granted under this section or to grant a higher award than one granted under this section.

(4) Whenever the issue of self-defense under this section is decided by a judge, the judge shall consider the same questions as must be answered in the special verdict under subsection (4) [(5)] of this section.

(5) Whenever the issue of self-defense under this section has been submitted to a jury, and the jury has found the defendant not guilty, the court shall instruct the jury to return a special verdict in substantially the following form: ......


http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.110

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Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:51 am
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Post Re: Can you afford to defend yourself?
To me, (YMMV), it seems these laws are written to convince/persuade you NOT to take the law into your own hands. i.e. bleed 'em dry
Only LEO's that are above the law seem to ever get away with - defending themselves or others. (job perks)
They don't want plain citizens defending themselves. It does not matter if the bad guy had the prez in a head lock with a gun pointed at his head and you, average Joe, decide to put a round in the bad guys head with all three networks cameras rolling.
Even though you had plenty of confirmed witnesses, you would still be charged for saving that worthless POS's life.

I.M.O.

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Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:04 pm
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Post Re: Can you afford to defend yourself? Ron & Don Talkshow.
Clear cut case of self defense. Saturday, October 7, 2006

Quote:
Assault victim fatally shoots assailant outside Westlake Center
Seattle police are still piecing together what happened, but this much is known: A young man was killed on the crowded sidewalk outside Westlake Center, and the confessed shooter was allowed to walk out of a police station.



Quote:
The man was arrested, but after questioning him and other witnesses, detectives determined they did not have probable cause to book him into the King County Jail. The man was released.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003294508_westlake08m.html

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Young Kim
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FFL 03 (C&R) Find out how to become a FFL 03 http://waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=859

Life Member of SAF and CCRKBA

If you shoot out in the woods... leave it cleaner than you found it.

"Shoot Often, Shoot Safely and Share Your Sport!"
Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA


Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:09 pm
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Post Re: Can you afford to defend yourself? Ron & Don Talkshow.
I went back and read the Newspaper account of the trial. Yes, he was found not guilty of committing a crime but just as in the Troy Meade case, the Jury found that it wasn't self defense. They found he was not actually being attacked AT THE TIME of the shooting. There are some facts placed in evidence that even the newspaper didn't report and were not presented in the piece aired on the R & D show.

It does make a very solid case for one to absolutely NOT shoot once the threat has ended. Even if it's just because everyone has fallen back to re-group.

I find the whole case interesting as one Jury said "No Self Defense" and the Civil Court Jury said "No Liability".

I think I'd be inclined to go after the "family" for costs although I'm sure the individual's Attorney has looked at that angle.

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Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:52 pm
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Post Re: Can you afford to defend yourself? Ron & Don Talkshow.
oldkim wrote:
Quote:
Even in self-defense, can you afford to pull the trigger?



How could somebody afford not to?

Money aint no good without your whole tribe intact.

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Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:27 pm
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Post Re: Can you afford to defend yourself? Ron & Don Talkshow.
tomy salami wrote:
oldkim wrote:
Quote:
Even in self-defense, can you afford to pull the trigger?



How could somebody afford not to?

Money aint no good without your whole tribe intact.


thumbsup :thumbsup2: thumbsup

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"Yes, making mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep" - Rudyard Kipling

"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." – Winston Churchill


"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
" - William Shakespeare


Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:11 am
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Post Re: Can you afford to defend yourself? Ron & Don Talkshow.
If I'm healthy I can work two or more jobs to pay off any bills. If I'm crippled, I ain't doing jack. And if I'm dead... well how many people have come back? Two if you're Christian I think it is. I'm not the son of God, nor do I think He is going to raise me from the dead anytime soon like He did Lazarus. So even with the worst case of jail and debt, it still seems the best of the options.


Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:44 am
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Post Re: Can you afford to defend yourself?
AR15L wrote:
To me, (YMMV), it seems these laws are written to convince/persuade you NOT to take the law into your own hands. i.e. bleed 'em dry
Only LEO's that are above the law seem to ever get away with - defending themselves or others. (job perks)
They don't want plain citizens defending themselves. It does not matter if the bad guy had the prez in a head lock with a gun pointed at his head and you, average Joe, decide to put a round in the bad guys head with all three networks cameras rolling.
Even though you had plenty of confirmed witnesses, you would still be charged for saving that worthless POS's life.

I.M.O.



Yep what ever you do don't cross that union line!


Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:30 pm
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