Sorry... here's a picture of a H&R Handy-Gun. Mine is virtually identical to this. It is .410 caliber with a 12 1/4" barrel.

Just to clarify my earlier response- when I said if you were stopped, I was implying in a vehicle. I realize it may not have seemed as such re-reading the post. If a cop decided that what you have is a shotgun (right or wrong) he can cite you for a loaded shotgun in the car, which a CPL would not cover, and you would be left to debate that in court. Again, right or wrong, the officer could do it, and unfortunately, there are a good number of officers who do not know the law, let alone have the advanced law degree many of them take to properly interpret.

Check the thread about knife laws. Most cities have a restriction for carrying a knife larger than 3.5 inches concealed. That's why the grammar nazis go wild when people call their CPL a CCW, or other non-sense. For some states their permit covers knives as well, but here in WA it is strictly for a pistol.

Also the Mossberg JIC shotgun with the pistol grip is treated like a pistol from a FFL standpoint.

You sure? Never heard that before.


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Agreed . . . I'm skeptical. Sorry, Chuck.

Good point. The better safe than sorry approach might save some headaches and money in the long run.

23 also includes (which I highlighted but you missed) a second definition above. SBS not need to be designed to be shoulder fired the way I read it.

I also agree with not taking the risk of having it in a vehicle loaded, even with a CPL, too confusing for Office Friendly.

The Handy Gun wasn't made from a shotgun or modified in any way, so the second half of 23 doesn't apply. If something wasn't ever a shotgun, there's no way it can be a short barreled shotgun.

That may have been true, but it was registered as a short barreled shotgun, so it's a mute point. Even if it wasn't a shotgun technically before... the paperwork says it is now!

The H&R Handy Gun is specifically pointed out on the BATFE website as an AOW.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-g ... -section-9

Worst case scenario--contact the BATFE and have it struck from the SBS registry and re-register as an AOW. It's only 5 bucks.

Notwithstanding the complying with federal law parts of the RCW (e.g. SBS), the BATFE classification has nothing to do with how a firearm is classified under state law. I'm not aware of any definitions in the RCW being tied to the USC definitions.

Actually, the Handy Gun from the view of the ATF is categorized as "Any other Weapon" which is different than a Small Barrel Shotgun. I erroneously described it as a SBS in my original post which might have led to some confusion. The ATF defines it as:

The term "any other weapon" means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

As has been previously pointed out here, the question isn't what the ATF defines it as, but rather what Washington State defines it as. I'm good to go as far as the ATF is concerned. The issue I had originally raised was how does this gun fit into the Washington definition and what restrictions might there be to 1) legal possession; 2) ability to carry it as any other pistol with a CPL (loaded in my vehicle, concealed, etc.); and 3) the ability to use it hunting in the field for grouse etc.

My interpretation at this point is that it is not a SBS based on the definition of both the SBS and Shotgun according to the RCW's, but rather a pistol.

He's partially right. It's treated (by an FFL) as an "Other than rifle or shotgun" and the purchaser must be 21 (like a pistol), since it's not designed to be fired from the shoulder and therefore not a shotgun. (per FFL Newsletter dated Feb 1999). However, I think there was something that came out at a meeting a couple weeks ago that said that's been changed. I'll have to check on Friday.

Wasn't directed at you.