Gun store Shooting Locations It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:04 am



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me Shield NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar


Forum rules


Nothing contained in this section shall be construed as legal advice. All members and guests are advised to perform due diligence in regards to laws and legal actions.



Reply to topic  [ 110 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next
 WA bill 1588 - require background checks for all gun sales. 
Author Message
User avatar

Location: Witch Well, AZ
Joined: Tue Feb 5, 2013
Posts: 580
SIG556 wrote:
Motivated wrote:
Workman was the most uninformed person I've ever heard, not only on this legislation but, gun rights in general.


You obviously haven't heard him much then.


This is the first and hopefully last time I will listen to Mr. Workman. For him to plead ignorance of important gun legislation in his home state given the heightened awareness of the issue is unforgivable IMO. What does he actually concern himself with?

Even more pathetic is Carlson's refusal to ask Rep. Hope why he is in direct opposition to the guidance of the NRA on this legislation.


Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:19 am
Profile
User avatar

Location: Witch Well, AZ
Joined: Tue Feb 5, 2013
Posts: 580
deadshot2 wrote:
If there is no hope of defeating this bill as written then push for an amendment that prohibits any record keeping that would resemble "registration".


If this bill passes, registration is a foregone conclusion IMHO.


Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:21 am
Profile
Online
Site Admin
User avatar
Site Admin

Location: Olympia, WA
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 38292
Real Name: Dan
Motivated wrote:
This is the first and hopefully last time I will listen to Mr. Workman. For him to plead ignorance of important gun legislation in his home state given the heightened awareness of the issue is unforgivable IMO. What does he actually concern himself with?



I would suggest staying out of Workman's Corner on this site then, where he posts his articles on a daily basis. I am sorry that you feel you can also completely judge a person based upon one interview. We will have to agree to disagree on Workman. Having read and listened to him for a few years now I honestly think he does have a clue and a finger on the pulse of what is happening here in WA. People are allowed to have off days too, crazy I know.


Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:31 am
Profile WWW
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Tacoma/Puyallup
Joined: Tue May 8, 2012
Posts: 4340
Real Name: Larry
Here is my question, call me uninformed or whatever, I am asking so that I AM informed...

Is there not already gun registration in essence? We will out the 4473 form, the FFL's have to keep records of every transaction.. When police run a gun serial does it not already show 1st legal owner? My point is, there may already be a list of some sort whether we all think there is or not? Obviously this new law would force private party sale records and keep that list "current" but I find it hard to believe that there is not already a gun registration list out there...

Also two people endorsing a bill means automatic passage?

_________________
Talons wrote:
it's too plastic, even for me.
it's like old, overworked, plastic everywhere old pornwhore amounts of plastic.


Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:08 am
Profile
Online
Site Admin
User avatar
Site Admin

Location: Olympia, WA
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 38292
Real Name: Dan
lamrith wrote:
Here is my question, call me uninformed or whatever, I am asking so that I AM informed...

Is there not already gun registration in essence? We will out the 4473 form, the FFL's have to keep records of every transaction.. When police run a gun serial does it not already show 1st legal owner? My point is, there may already be a list of some sort whether we all think there is or not? Obviously this new law would force private party sale records and keep that list "current" but I find it hard to believe that there is not already a gun registration list out there...

Also two people endorsing a bill means automatic passage?


No. The only way to find the 1st owner is a manual search. The ATF will take the serial # and contact the mfg, who will tell them the distributor they sold it to. Then the ATF will contact that distributor and they will tell them the dealer they sold it to. Then the ATF will contact that dealer and have them pull the 4473 and fax it to them. It's a process!

When doing a NICS check, the only thing the .gov knows is that you were approved to purchase a firearm. They don't know how many, or if you even went through with the transaction.


Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:12 am
Profile WWW
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Hoodsport/Shelton
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011
Posts: 3370
Real Name: Don
Motivated wrote:
deadshot2 wrote:
If there is no hope of defeating this bill as written then push for an amendment that prohibits any record keeping that would resemble "registration".


If this bill passes, registration is a foregone conclusion IMHO.



IMHO...In Your Humble Opinion huh?...Hmmmm...seems to me that your opinion is anything but humble. especially from a new guy that that has not followed Dave Workman's column.

I always hesitate to call someone out...but you smell like a troll. icon_eek

_________________
"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living".

-- Travis A Kisner


Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:22 am
Profile
Online
Site Admin
User avatar
Site Admin

Location: Olympia, WA
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 38292
Real Name: Dan
Easy guys. We are all opinionated and passionate. I do hope Motivated will be able to see past a single interview though before passing judgement on a person who has done a HELL of a lot towards our rights.


Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:34 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Location: Witch Well, AZ
Joined: Tue Feb 5, 2013
Posts: 580
Massivedesign wrote:
Motivated wrote:
This is the first and hopefully last time I will listen to Mr. Workman. For him to plead ignorance of important gun legislation in his home state given the heightened awareness of the issue is unforgivable IMO. What does he actually concern himself with?



I would suggest staying out of Workman's Corner on this site then, where he posts his articles on a daily basis. I am sorry that you feel you can also completely judge a person based upon one interview. We will have to agree to disagree on Workman. Having read and listened to him for a few years now I honestly think he does have a clue and a finger on the pulse of what is happening here in WA. People are allowed to have off days too, crazy I know.

I'm surprised then that he was so ill informed on this bill. Anyway, Mike Hope will get a negative
from the NRA.

Have a great day!


Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:45 am
Profile
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: Tacoma/Puyallup
Joined: Tue May 8, 2012
Posts: 4340
Real Name: Larry
Thanks Dan.

Massivedesign wrote:
lamrith wrote:
Here is my question, call me uninformed or whatever, I am asking so that I AM informed...

Is there not already gun registration in essence? We will out the 4473 form, the FFL's have to keep records of every transaction.. When police run a gun serial does it not already show 1st legal owner? My point is, there may already be a list of some sort whether we all think there is or not? Obviously this new law would force private party sale records and keep that list "current" but I find it hard to believe that there is not already a gun registration list out there...

Also two people endorsing a bill means automatic passage?


No. The only way to find the 1st owner is a manual search. The ATF will take the serial # and contact the mfg, who will tell them the distributor they sold it to. Then the ATF will contact that distributor and they will tell them the dealer they sold it to. Then the ATF will contact that dealer and have them pull the 4473 and fax it to them. It's a process!

When doing a NICS check, the only thing the .gov knows is that you were approved to purchase a firearm. They don't know how many, or if you even went through with the transaction.

_________________
Talons wrote:
it's too plastic, even for me.
it's like old, overworked, plastic everywhere old pornwhore amounts of plastic.


Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:20 am
Profile
User avatar

Location: Witch Well, AZ
Joined: Tue Feb 5, 2013
Posts: 580
One thing I did not mention- Mr. Workman did ask Rep Hope a very good ? if the new legislation would cost $$. Hope's response was a resounding yes. Read: "fees" to go up up up to support the latest bureaucracy.


Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:42 pm
Profile
User avatar

Location: Puget Sound
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012
Posts: 58
Wow, another turn-coat rebloodlican......fuck the republicans.......we need a freedom party!!!!!!


Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:00 am
Profile
In Memoriam
User avatar
In Memoriam

Location: South King County, WA
Joined: Thu Dec 8, 2011
Posts: 5846
Massivedesign wrote:
Easy guys. We are all opinionated and passionate. I do hope Motivated will be able to see past a single interview though before passing judgement on a person who has done a HELL of a lot towards our rights.

I, for one, look forward to Motivated's forthcoming book on gun rights and responsibilities in Washington state . . . .


:ROFLMAO:

_________________
M D "Doc" Nugent
NRA RSO

Synopsis of Rules for Radicals: http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm
"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds" - Bob Marley
104th Division Image Timberwolves


Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:13 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Location: Witch Well, AZ
Joined: Tue Feb 5, 2013
Posts: 580
DocNugent wrote:
Massivedesign wrote:
Easy guys. We are all opinionated and passionate. I do hope Motivated will be able to see past a single interview though before passing judgement on a person who has done a HELL of a lot towards our rights.

I, for one, look forward to Motivated's forthcoming book on gun rights and responsibilities in Washington state . . . .


:ROFLMAO:

Watch for it on the New York Times best seller list. It's not to miss.


Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:56 am
Profile
User avatar

Location: Seattle
Joined: Thu Jun 7, 2012
Posts: 14
Real Name: Robert Apgood
Motivated wrote:
Workman was the most uninformed person I've ever heard, not only on this legislation but, gun rights in general.

Rubbish.

_________________
A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

IAAL. Anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.


Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:15 pm
Profile WWW
Site Supporter
User avatar
Site Supporter

Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012
Posts: 7251
I just sent an email to the judiciary committee. Word is this bill is getting bipartisan support, yet it is critically flawed.

Here are some of the points I made.

HB 1588, as it is written:
- fails to make it easy for gun buyers and sellers to get a background check by accessing a larger network (almost 300) federally licensed Federal Firearm Licensees (FFL 01's, in BATF language)
- removes the free market pricing of a background checks, by forcing "dealers" to charge a fixed price of $20 for private sales, some dealers may decline to process at this fixed price
- removes the consumer choice of who performs that check (right now you could go to a FFL and request a transfer and background check for a private sale - this bill makes it mandatory to go to the police or a "dealer", someone who sells guns)
- fails to implement the required Brady waiting period on handgun sales
- misses an opportunity to collect WA sales tax, where this would apply under state law
- in the definition of an "unlicensed person" fails to consider holders of FFL 03's (curio and relics) who may purchase certain firearms without a background check legally under federal law. I am licensed by the BATF, but I am not a dealer under the RCWs. I should not be considered an "unlicensed person" for guns I can legally purchase under federal law.
- fails to cover gifts/transfers to family members (why should we assume that family members may not be felons or mentally incompetent?)

Whether you agree with me or not on Brady wait, family gifts, and sales tax, they are levers I am using to push them towards the existing process.
It also seems to restrict transfers to "dealers" (under RCW, those who sell guns as a business) and police, rather than being all FFLs including Kitchen Table.

It looks to me like this bill would require FFL 03's (C&R) would have to get background checks for in-state purchases! Crazy!


Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:44 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 110 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum



Rules WGO Chat Room Gear Rent Me NRA SAF CCKRBA
Calendar


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.
[ Time : 0.591s | 16 Queries | GZIP : Off ]