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Buffalo, NY shows us what 594 will do to widows
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Dean762
Location: Lakewood Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 Posts: 316
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colimr wrote: I was informed by a member of my rifle club who has been in meetings with some State police here in NY.Several counties in the upper NY area North have told thier county clerks to look at obituaries to connect names with weapon owners for the purpose of confiscation.I absolutely trust this source And therin lies the fear that people have about registries. They can and will be abused and used by unscrupulous bureaucrats/govts for there own ends. Taking a grandma's dead husbands WW2 war trophy away from her does nothing to stop crime, just makes the libs feel good that they are" getting guns off the streets" etc.
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Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:33 pm |
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powder
Location: Gig Harbor, WA Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 Posts: 201
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I would like to thank ANZAC and everyone who voted for this piece of shit law. The fact we are even debating this happening here means we are on the wrong path as a state with gun rights.
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Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:45 pm |
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colimr
Location: New York Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 Posts: 11
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Use the web to look up ny state police safe act procedures.if you loose your pistol permit the police remove ALL firearms from the person this includes your grandads shotgun.I repeat remove ALL firearms.I dont know if this happens if your giving up your permit for health or age reasons volentarly. This is how it will work in WA vote the law,enact the law then write the procedures to uphold the law.The people who voted for 594 opened pandora's box like they did here in NY.Like anything in this government the hidden underbelly of the law isn't what is voted on it's the pretty words and promised safty they choose but that gives lawmakers the ability to skew the law to take away your rights.
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Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:41 am |
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PMB
In Memoriam
Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013 Posts: 12018
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colimr wrote: The people who voted for 594 opened Pandora's box like they did here in NY.Like anything in this government the hidden underbelly of the law isn't what is voted on it's the pretty words and promised safety ... Very well said, colimr. Pretty words... That's what folks thought they were getting. This is a matter of education. It's very difficult to get a large group of people to admit that a mistake was made, so this is going to be a long, tough, uphill battle for the paradigm shift of self-responsibility to take hold. Folks thought they were voting to make our society a safer, happier place.
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Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:54 am |
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Dean762
Location: Lakewood Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 Posts: 316
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colimr wrote: Use the web to look up ny state police safe act procedures.if you loose your pistol permit the police remove ALL firearms from the person this includes your grandads shotgun.I repeat remove ALL firearms.I dont know if this happens if your giving up your permit for health or age reasons volentarly. This is how it will work in WA vote the law,enact the law then write the procedures to uphold the law.The people who voted for 594 opened pandora's box like they did here in NY.Like anything in this government the hidden underbelly of the law isn't what is voted on it's the pretty words and promised safty they choose but that gives lawmakers the ability to skew the law to take away your rights. When you say "pistol permit" are you saying a permit to carry concealed or a permit to actually own the guns ? It sounds like what is going on in your neck of the woods is a major violation of the 4th amendment not to mention the 2nd. Any court challenges to the so called safe act and how its being abused ?
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Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:18 pm |
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colimr
Location: New York Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 Posts: 11
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In NY you get a permit to own then approved to carry. No carry approval, you can only carry for hunting or target shooting.In the procedure for the State Police to apply the Safe Act it just says that if you loose your pistol permit (no reason being given so I cant state how its lost weather voluntary or revoked) the law enforcement division is to remove ALL firearm,s that as I am told is a .22 .hand gun.up to an assault weapon(AR15) See http://www.scribd.com/doc/174855115/New ... ield-Guide
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Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:39 pm |
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FattyKrack
Site Supporter
Location: Bainbridge Island Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 Posts: 1684
Real Name: Matt
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Dean762 wrote: colimr wrote: Use the web to look up ny state police safe act procedures.if you loose your pistol permit the police remove ALL firearms from the person this includes your grandads shotgun.I repeat remove ALL firearms.I dont know if this happens if your giving up your permit for health or age reasons volentarly. This is how it will work in WA vote the law,enact the law then write the procedures to uphold the law.The people who voted for 594 opened pandora's box like they did here in NY.Like anything in this government the hidden underbelly of the law isn't what is voted on it's the pretty words and promised safty they choose but that gives lawmakers the ability to skew the law to take away your rights. When you say "pistol permit" are you saying a permit to carry concealed or a permit to actually own the guns ? It sounds like what is going on in your neck of the woods is a major violation of the 4th amendment not to mention the 2nd. Any court challenges to the so called safe act and how its being abused ? The pistol permit has been a thing for decades. First read about it in Steven King's "Dark Tower: Drawing of the Three". Promptly researched it and almost puked.
_________________ "Using my gun to see at night, and sleeping with my flashlight" - atmosphere
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Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:54 pm |
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ANZAC
Site Supporter
Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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powder wrote: I would like to thank ANZAC and everyone who voted for this piece of shit law. The fact we are even debating this happening here means we are on the wrong path as a state with gun rights. I was not able to vote for it.
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Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:11 pm |
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ANZAC
Site Supporter
Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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colimr wrote: Use the web to look up ny state police safe act procedures.if you loose your pistol permit the police remove ALL firearms from the person this includes your grandads shotgun.I repeat remove ALL firearms.I dont know if this happens if your giving up your permit for health or age reasons volentarly. This is how it will work in WA vote the law,enact the law then write the procedures to uphold the law.The people who voted for 594 opened pandora's box like they did here in NY.Like anything in this government the hidden underbelly of the law isn't what is voted on it's the pretty words and promised safty they choose but that gives lawmakers the ability to skew the law to take away your rights. 594 is not going to become the SAFE act without some additional legislation or initiative.
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Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:12 pm |
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ANZAC
Site Supporter
Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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jim_dandy wrote: I'm curious about the effects of the law on folks who find a deceased relative's firearms more than 60 days after the death.
Does it mean they are instantly criminals for finding the guns too late and then being in control of them? Did you actually read 594? It doesn't say within "60 days after the death" as you wrote. It says: "acquired a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner of the pistol within the preceding sixty days" So. There is an estate, there are man things to be settled. I don't know much about the probate process but it says you have to have ACQUIRED the pistol BY OPERATION OF LAW, within the preceding sixty days. And let's hypothetically say you just find a gun in a storage unit, surely that is the point at which you acquire it.....?
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Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:18 pm |
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ANZAC
Site Supporter
Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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ANZAC wrote: OK, that was quick: "when the police will take your gun"
- arrest for using the firearm in commission of a crime, threatening to use, pointing it at someone or actually pulling the trigger on someone. Taken as evidence until prosecution is over with and sentencing. - concealed carry violation arrest, no permit. - prohibited possessor, someone convicted of a Felony and is in possession of a firearm. might be some stipulations as to what kind of felony. Need to research that one to get perfect answer. - taken for safekeeping: ie we go into a home of a mentally ill person and they are a threat to themselves or others we could remove a firearm if it is readily accessible and the person has either mentioned using it or it is readily accessible to them. - If we arrest someone and they have a gun on them but not prohibited, we take the gun for safe keeping. They can get the gun back at a later date after they get out of jail. Jail will not accept a firearm as personal property. ((I think this assumes they don't become prohibited if convicted - ANZAC)) Big ones are arrests and prohibited possessor stuff. - Hunting violations: taking game out of season, no license in season and whatever else the WDFW officer can think of to keep the gun. They take guns all the time I’ve heard. - no idea about the new legislation ((594 - ANZAC)) on how that will affect what we do if anything. People were asking for this. Sorry it took so long. But no comments? Bueller?
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Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:19 pm |
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Alpine
Site Supporter
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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ANZAC wrote: jim_dandy wrote: I'm curious about the effects of the law on folks who find a deceased relative's firearms more than 60 days after the death.
Does it mean they are instantly criminals for finding the guns too late and then being in control of them? Did you actually read 594? It doesn't say within "60 days after the death" as you wrote. It says: "acquired a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner of the pistol within the preceding sixty days" So. There is an estate, there are man things to be settled. I don't know much about the probate process but it says you have to have ACQUIRED the pistol BY OPERATION OF LAW, within the preceding sixty days. And let's hypothetically say you just find a gun in a storage unit, surely that is the point at which you acquire it.....? You can receive a giant pile of belongings, accept it, and then take more than 60 days to sort through it. No inventory is required when receiving bequeathed items or items rendered to you by the state through probate or inheritance. People who have busy lives, work, have their own families, etc., can easily take more than 60 days to take stock of new possessions like this. Grieving survivors may very well AVOID their departed loved one's possessions for up to a year or more AFTER they have taken legal possession.
_________________If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"
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Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:46 pm |
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Alpine
Site Supporter
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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ANZAC wrote: OK, that was quick: "when the police will take your gun"
- arrest for using the firearm in commission of a crime, threatening to use, pointing it at someone or actually pulling the trigger on someone. Taken as evidence until prosecution is over with and sentencing. - concealed carry violation arrest, no permit. - prohibited possessor, someone convicted of a Felony and is in possession of a firearm. might be some stipulations as to what kind of felony. Need to research that one to get perfect answer. - taken for safekeeping: ie we go into a home of a mentally ill person and they are a threat to themselves or others we could remove a firearm if it is readily accessible and the person has either mentioned using it or it is readily accessible to them. - If we arrest someone and they have a gun on them but not prohibited, we take the gun for safe keeping. They can get the gun back at a later date after they get out of jail. Jail will not accept a firearm as personal property. ((I think this assumes they don't become prohibited if convicted - ANZAC)) Big ones are arrests and prohibited possessor stuff. - Hunting violations: taking game out of season, no license in season and whatever else the WDFW officer can think of to keep the gun. They take guns all the time I’ve heard. - no idea about the new legislation ((594 - ANZAC)) on how that will affect what we do if anything. "Big ones," isn't that nice? They'll only save the "little ones" for when they are bored, have a slow month or don't like someone right? Did you ask them what would stop them from trolling county death records for deaths from several months past, double checking it with their state LEO pistol registry for pistol owners who owned 2 or more and then calling DOL to check on if the family called in that time? Over the holidays I will be asking several friends from KCSO and local PDs their views on this and I'll report them come January.
_________________If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"
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Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:47 pm |
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jim_dandy
Site Supporter
Location: Snohomish County & Pierce County Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 Posts: 659
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ANZAC wrote: jim_dandy wrote: I'm curious about the effects of the law on folks who find a deceased relative's firearms more than 60 days after the death.
Does it mean they are instantly criminals for finding the guns too late and then being in control of them? Did you actually read 594? It doesn't say within "60 days after the death" as you wrote. It says: "acquired a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner of the pistol within the preceding sixty days" So. There is an estate, there are man things to be settled. I don't know much about the probate process but it says you have to have ACQUIRED the pistol BY OPERATION OF LAW, within the preceding sixty days. And let's hypothetically say you just find a gun in a storage unit, surely that is the point at which you acquire it.....? I think you didn't read that post where I asked for clarification on that specific statement. It still leaves room for making felons - specially if the heir just knows they're supposed to receive everything by operation of law (e.g. no will, law says it all goes to the spouse). Clearly it's within 60 days of that at least. Alpine does make a good point though - even if it's how you describe. You can acquire goods by operation of law and not know their contents, or just not be available to go through them, or they're remote (e.g. you inherit a cabin in the woods and find a hunting pistol). The law makes no provision for that, and they can do like NY and see if some of the stuff on the pistol registry is still owned by a decedent after 90 days, likely as for most regular folks things will have gone through the process by then. Then there's the case where there's a large collection or one that is spread out. What if you miss transferring a gun and find it later after the due date? Do you turn yourself in and hope they're lenient or just throw it away?
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Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:41 am |
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Alpine
Site Supporter
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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jim_dandy wrote: ANZAC wrote: jim_dandy wrote: I'm curious about the effects of the law on folks who find a deceased relative's firearms more than 60 days after the death.
Does it mean they are instantly criminals for finding the guns too late and then being in control of them? Did you actually read 594? It doesn't say within "60 days after the death" as you wrote. It says: "acquired a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner of the pistol within the preceding sixty days" So. There is an estate, there are man things to be settled. I don't know much about the probate process but it says you have to have ACQUIRED the pistol BY OPERATION OF LAW, within the preceding sixty days. And let's hypothetically say you just find a gun in a storage unit, surely that is the point at which you acquire it.....? I think you didn't read that post where I asked for clarification on that specific statement. It still leaves room for making felons - specially if the heir just knows they're supposed to receive everything by operation of law (e.g. no will, law says it all goes to the spouse). Clearly it's within 60 days of that at least. Alpine does make a good point though - even if it's how you describe. You can acquire goods by operation of law and not know their contents, or just not be available to go through them, or they're remote (e.g. you inherit a cabin in the woods and find a hunting pistol). The law makes no provision for that, and they can do like NY and see if some of the stuff on the pistol registry is still owned by a decedent after 90 days, likely as for most regular folks things will have gone through the process by then. Then there's the case where there's a large collection or one that is spread out. What if you miss transferring a gun and find it later after the due date? Do you turn yourself in and hope they're lenient or just throw it away? The criminal aspect (which IS very clear) aside, a woman specifically asked Ralph Fascist-letti about what would happen to the right to own firearms after that period and he lied and said he didn't know and the audience laughed. In reality a close reading of the section shows the verbiage used doesn't allow for possession any other way but by following those steps, so one can logically infer the pistols must be turned in or seized by police.
_________________If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"
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Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:57 am |
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