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Nothing contained in this section shall be construed as legal advice. All members and guests are advised to perform due diligence in regards to laws and legal actions.
Brandishing
Moderator: Bill Starks
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[ 15 posts ] |
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Brandishing
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 Location: Ellensburg Joined: Sat Nov 1, 2014 Posts: 604 Real Name: Andy 
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At what point it's it brandishing? I know someone who carries a full frame pistol OWB and in a very big holster. This person always has the bottom of the holster exposed from the bottom of his jacket. And sometimes if he lifts his arms the entire pistol is exposed. And after that happens there is no rush to conceal it. Would this be brandishing? I know WA is open carry but having it concealed then not seems it could be a grey area.
And no that person is not me. _________________ •Looking at cleavage is like looking at the sun. You don't stare at it. It's too risky. Ya get a sense of it and then you look away. –Jerry Seinfeld |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:23 am |
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Site Supporter   Location: Orting Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 Posts: 1359 Real Name: Nick
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I would just consider that open carry that's occasionally covered by an outer garment. Now, if he were pulling his jacket open on that side, specifically to show off the firearm in response to a perceived conflict (somebody cut in front of him at the grocery store), that would be more like brandishing. Reaching for a box of cheerios on the top shelf and the jacket ride up? Not so much.
_________________ Massivedesign wrote: There is no such thing as 5.56 55gr.. |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:26 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: south 'merca Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 Posts: 9738 Real Name: Mike
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Correct. Tell him to buy some longer clothing. I buy all my shirts slightly larger for this reason, and if you gotta reach for something and risk exposing a carry, use your non gun hand
_________________ "No Quarter, No Mercy" mash_man wrote: #gangbangerlivesmatter |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:35 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Lakewood, WA Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 Posts: 4056 Real Name: brad aka bubba
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accidental viewing of a firearm is not considered brandishing.
Federal law defines brandished as, “with reference to a dangerous weapon (including a firearm) means that all or part of the weapon was displayed, or the presence of the weapon was otherwise made known to another person, in order to intimidate that person, regardless of whether the weapon was directly visible to that person. Accordingly, although the dangerous weapon does not have to be directly visible, the weapon must be present.” (18 USCS Appx § 1B1.1) _________________ ALL MY FIREARMS WILL ONLY BE TRANSFERRED THROUGH I-5 Guns And Ammo (Lacey WA) |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:59 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Snohomish County Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 Posts: 2300
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Quote: RCW 9.41.270 Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions. (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons. (2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license. (3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following: (a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business; (b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty; (c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person; (d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or (e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments. Sent from my UAV using Disposition Matrix 2.0 _________________ “I'm cracking eggs of wisdom!” |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:01 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: N-Sno Joined: Thu Oct 3, 2013 Posts: 4015
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Having a gun in the holster negates pretty much all of this. If you've drawn it then you may need to worry about LE seeing your actions as intimidating or threatening. Someone sees your holstered gun? Meh. 911 dispatchers often won't even send a cop if the RP says the firearm is holstered. There are numerous instances of this - hysterical person calls police because they see an open carrier but the dipatcher tells them no crime is being committed - on the open carry boards.
_________________ "Hmmm. I've been looking for a way to serve the community that incorporates my violence." -- Leela |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:03 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Snohomish County & Pierce County Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 Posts: 659
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mislabeled wrote: Having a gun in the holster negates pretty much all of this. If you've drawn it then you may need to worry about LE seeing your actions as intimidating or threatening. Someone sees your holstered gun? Meh. 911 dispatchers often won't even send a cop if the RP says the firearm is holstered. There are numerous instances of this - hysterical person calls police because they see an open carrier but the dipatcher tells them no crime is being committed - on the open carry boards. I think the one instance where a holstered gun can be considered brandishing is what cycle61 described above - deliberately revealing a concealed firearm as a threat, even if it never gets drawn. _________________ A simple explanation of why ANZAC's "Where do felons get their guns?" doesn't support his conclusions. |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:16 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Olympia Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 Posts: 16044 Real Name: Steve
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The word brandishing does not appear in state law. At all. It is a term without legal meaning in this state. What you need to be concerned with is RW 9.41.270 as already referenced.
As for the scenario you described, there is nothing illegal about it. If you have a concealed pistol license, wear concealed or openly, doesn't matter. There is no requirement to conceal in this state, and accidental revelation of your weapon is not illegal. _________________ "I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." - William Buckley, Jr. "...steam, artillery and revolvers give to civilized man an irresistible power." -Perry Collins |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:24 am |
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Site Supporter Location: Orting Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 Posts: 1359 Real Name: Nick
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Quote: RCW 9.41.270 Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons. I guess for the purpose of our discussion, we could call this "brandishing". And after reading the actual law, I agree that my made-up scenario above would be considered an "intent to intimidate". _________________ Massivedesign wrote: There is no such thing as 5.56 55gr.. |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:55 am |
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Site Supporter Location: Olympia Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 Posts: 16044 Real Name: Steve
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I don't think it would be "intent to intimidate" either. There has to be specific behavior, merely accidentally displaying a firearm through the movement of clothing, and not bothering to conceal it isn't an intent do to anything, except maybe wear a short coat. I carry a 6.5" revolver, I have this exact scenario happen all the time to me. I literally just don't care, and adjust my clothing when I feel like it, if at all.
_________________ "I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." - William Buckley, Jr. "...steam, artillery and revolvers give to civilized man an irresistible power." -Perry Collins |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:05 am |
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Site Supporter Location: Orting Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 Posts: 1359 Real Name: Nick
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I meant the one where the gun is deliberately exposed (although still holstered) in an intimidating manner.
_________________ Massivedesign wrote: There is no such thing as 5.56 55gr.. |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:12 am |
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Site Supporter Location: Lakewood, WA Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 Posts: 4056 Real Name: brad aka bubba
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cycle61 wrote: I meant the one where the gun is deliberately exposed (although still holstered) in an intimidating manner. If a gun is exposed to intimidate a person or persons than it would be considered brandishing. _________________ ALL MY FIREARMS WILL ONLY BE TRANSFERRED THROUGH I-5 Guns And Ammo (Lacey WA) |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:36 am |
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 Site Supporter  Location: Nampa, Idaho Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 19463 Real Name: Rick
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An anti gun libtard will call the po po at any giving chance and lie to them about what they (think they) saw.
Even if you were reaching for your wallet to buy your kid an ice cream cone. _________________ ‘What’s the point of being a citizen if an illegal gets all the benefits’ |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:02 pm |
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Location: Ellensburg Joined: Sat Nov 1, 2014 Posts: 604 Real Name: Andy
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AR15L wrote: An anti gun libtard will call the po po at any giving chance and lie to them about what they (think they) saw. Even if you were reaching for your wallet to buy your kid an ice cream cone. That is the sad truth. So it does not matter to much to some people what the law states anti gun people will say whatever it takes to get ours guns taken away. And thanks to all for clearing that up. I feel I have a little better understanding of that law. _________________ •Looking at cleavage is like looking at the sun. You don't stare at it. It's too risky. Ya get a sense of it and then you look away. –Jerry Seinfeld |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:53 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Olympia Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 Posts: 16044 Real Name: Steve
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AR15L wrote: An anti gun libtard will call the po po at any giving chance and lie to them about what they (think they) saw. Even if you were reaching for your wallet to buy your kid an ice cream cone. That is why I keep my wallet in my left hand pocket when I carry, and take it out with my left hand. _________________ "I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." - William Buckley, Jr. "...steam, artillery and revolvers give to civilized man an irresistible power." -Perry Collins |
| Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:01 pm |
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