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 Private F2F transfer BGC illegal? 
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gscott wrote:
Unicorn wrote:
So if it's illegal why did the ATF send out two newletter about how to do them? Then add to the online 4473? Seems just plain silly in this day and age to say private transfers are illegal. This thing called the internet, where anyone can go to the ATF's website and view the guidance letters for themselves.


The fact that BATFE would amend the forms to accomodate private BGCs has little bearing. Of course the BATFE under this administration will support liberal states' efforts to infringe on gun owners, legal or not.


It gave legitimacy if it somehow were to be declared misuse of the NICS system. The two agencies responsible for enforcing, maintaining, and running the system have said it's ok. One of which has regulatory control over firearms and firearm sales.

Nowhere does any law say that the NICS can only be used for a sale of a gun from a dealer. If this were illegal, then so would buying a gun from someone on Gunbroker and having it shipped through your local dealer. This really is an extension of that.


Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:23 am
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Unicorn wrote:
gscott wrote:
Unicorn wrote:
So if it's illegal why did the ATF send out two newletter about how to do them? Then add to the online 4473? Seems just plain silly in this day and age to say private transfers are illegal. This thing called the internet, where anyone can go to the ATF's website and view the guidance letters for themselves.


The fact that BATFE would amend the forms to accomodate private BGCs has little bearing. Of course the BATFE under this administration will support liberal states' efforts to infringe on gun owners, legal or not.


It gave legitimacy if it somehow were to be declared misuse of the NICS system. The two agencies responsible for enforcing, maintaining, and running the system have said it's ok. One of which has regulatory control over firearms and firearm sales.

Nowhere does any law say that the NICS can only be used for a sale of a gun from a dealer. If this were illegal, then so would buying a gun from someone on Gunbroker and having it shipped through your local dealer. This really is an extension of that.



Who can use the FBI NICS E-Check?
Any FFL and/or their designated representatives who normally contacts NICS for firearm transactions may use the FBI NICS E-Check. Individuals that utilize the FBI NICS E-Check are required to register with the FBI NICS E-Check to obtain access. This system can be used only for firearm transactions in accordance with the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993.


So, the 'handbook' says the NICS can only be used for "Brady Act" background checks. That's different than 594 background checks.

And

Have any Cl03 FFLs tried to register for the NICS check system? It looks to only reference it can be used by FFLs, there are 11 different classes, all FFLs.


Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:05 pm
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do you need a BGC on a BCG?

:ROFLMAO: :rofl9:

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Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:43 pm
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usrifle wrote:
Screw Wades, and I-594.
Two CPL's is a BGC.


Amen brother, the is 'Merica. Screw 594 :flag:

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Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:42 pm
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A NICS background check has to be done almost anytime a dealer transfers a firearm.
The state says dealers must be used.
Therefore a NICS check must be done.
Unless the federal lawsuit the SAF has filed goes our way and this entire thing gets tossed like it should be.


Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:04 pm
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Unicorn wrote:
Not illegal, but if it might bring the ATF around asking questions I can understand why most won't want it to happen.
Kind of along the lines of don't invite the man into your life.



but what if your a woman?? mehhh FUCK 594!!


a BGC is BGC what the Fuck is a cpl good for just carry conceal Image

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Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:13 pm
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Like someone else said, it's Wade's. No surprise.

Haven't crossed their threshold in a solid decade, not since I went with a girlfriend to take a course and noticed lots of disturbing things, like their apparent willingness to rent a gun to anyone with money for ammunition and some kind of semi-legitimate ID; the clerk was renting guns to a group of teenage boys who clearly had never been shooting in their lives, let alone taught the basic rules (one of them was giggling about "holding a real gun". Giggling.). And Wade's has had at least three in-store or on-range suicides or homicides, that I can think of right offhand, in the past ten years. WCA (and before them, WSI) has had zero.

I wouldn't go to Wade's for any reason. Place scares me.

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Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:07 pm
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glockgirl wrote:
Like someone else said, it's Wade's. No surprise.

Haven't crossed their threshold in a solid decade, not since I went with a girlfriend to take a course and noticed lots of disturbing things, like their apparent willingness to rent a gun to anyone with money for ammunition and some kind of semi-legitimate ID; the clerk was renting guns to a group of teenage boys who clearly had never been shooting in their lives, let alone taught the basic rules (one of them was giggling about "holding a real gun". Giggling.). And Wade's has had at least three in-store or on-range suicides or homicides, that I can think of right offhand, in the past ten years. WCA (and before them, WSI) has had zero.

I wouldn't go to Wade's for any reason. Place scares me.

WCA has had at least one suicide. And to be fair they weren't very forthcoming about it when it happened.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showt ... n-Bellevue
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/ ... 354804.php

All that said, I definitely prefer WCA to Wade's.

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Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:34 pm
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Old, dead thread, but I'm bored. :bigsmile:

IF it were illegal to do private party transfers (the ATF's name for face to face), then it would also be illegal to do transfers for people buying guns off Gunbroker, from Bud's, direct from SIG, etcetera. It's the same thing really. We aren't selling the gun, just accepting and transferring it.


Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:22 pm
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gscott wrote:
Have any Cl03 FFLs tried to register for the NICS check system? It looks to only reference it can be used by FFLs, there are 11 different classes, all FFLs.


Interesting question. I'll call the ATF tomorrow...I'm positive they will say no - but I'd love to hear them do mental gymnastics explaining why.


Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:37 pm
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SFCRMSA wrote:
usrifle wrote:
Screw Wades, and I-594.
Two CPL's is a BGC.


Amen brother, the is 'Merica. Screw 594 :flag:


You guys are experts in spotting forged or revoked CPLs?

Im no proponent of 594 or universal BCGs but to say that a CPL is "Proof" of anything is unrealistic.
I suck at photoshop, but I'm pretty sure I could produce a visually passable CPL after scanning a real one and making a new one with any info I needed one it.


Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:51 pm
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NWRed wrote:
SFCRMSA wrote:
usrifle wrote:
Screw Wades, and I-594.
Two CPL's is a BGC.


Amen brother, the is 'Merica. Screw 594 :flag:


You guys are experts in spotting forged or revoked CPLs?

Im no proponent of 594 or universal BCGs but to say that a CPL is "Proof" of anything is unrealistic.
I suck at photoshop, but I'm pretty sure I could produce a visually passable CPL after scanning a real one and making a new one with any info I needed one it.


Which is why we need a system where you just call into the issuing department with the name/number and confirm its valid. As I pointed out to ANZAC (who has yet to reply) in another thread, that's what a LEO does when they want to confirm I am legally carrying concealed. This would also eliminate his concerns about someone having a CPL but having just been committed some disqualifying event. An automated system would be cheap and easy.


Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:33 pm
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I called the ATF today and then they told me to call the FBI...and the FBI transferred me to their in-house ATF Agent. He pointed out the following regulations:

Quote:
" § 25.6 Accessing records in the system.
(a) FFLs may initiate a NICS background check only in connection with a proposed firearm transfer as required by the Brady Act. FFLs are strictly prohibited from initiating a NICS background check for any other purpose."


Soooo, you're only allowed to use NICS as required by the Brady Act and here's the Brady Act:

Quote:
" § 478.102 Sales or deliveries of firearms on and after November 30, 1998.
(a) Background check. Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer (the licensee) shall not sell, deliver, or transfer a firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this part unless the licensee meets the following requirements:"


Collectors are not mentioned (nor is anyone else)...so - by law - the Brady Act has restricted access to NICS to one of three types of people: importers, manufacturers and dealers. And that, ladies & gentlemen, is why we cannot have an efficient and logical method of running background checks on prospective gun buyers using the FBI's NICS.

Image

With that said, WA could still create a more efficient system by simply letting us call to confirm that a CPL is valid. As I said before, easy and cheap...but we must remember - this is about controlling guns (or more accurately attempting to control people) and making things easy/cheap is not the real intention.


Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:10 am
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Benja455 wrote:
I called the ATF today and then they told me to call the FBI...and the FBI transferred me to their in-house ATF Agent. He pointed out the following regulations:

Quote:
" § 25.6 Accessing records in the system.
(a) FFLs may initiate a NICS background check only in connection with a proposed firearm transfer as required by the Brady Act. FFLs are strictly prohibited from initiating a NICS background check for any other purpose."


Maybe ask him to read this before commenting:
https://www.atf.gov/file/4961/download


Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:30 pm
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Benja455 wrote:
With that said, WA could still create a more efficient system by simply letting us call to confirm that a CPL is valid. As I said before, easy and cheap...but we must remember - this is about controlling guns (or more accurately attempting to control people) and making things easy/cheap is not the real intention.


I do support this -- but it not 100% of transactions are to a person with a CPL. There has to be a backup process/4473.


Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:31 pm
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