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Question on rules for pistols in vehicle
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Site Supporter   Location: N-Sno Joined: Thu Oct 3, 2013 Posts: 4015 
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Women carry guns in their purses all the time and you don't hear about them encountering trouble with this law. I was pulled over once when my gun was in my purse and the trooper was thoroughly uninterested in the fact that it wasn't on me.
Also, using only one "or" at the end of a list means that only one of the conditions must be met. That's how every other RCW is structured so there's no reason to treat this one differently. _________________ "Hmmm. I've been looking for a way to serve the community that incorporates my violence." -- Leela |
| Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:31 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: England Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 Posts: 2954 Real Name: Michael
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UpDog wrote: MadPick wrote: Well, here's the law (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050): Quote: (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle. Assuming that the CPL holder ("licensee") is in the vehicle, I don't see any restrictions on where in the vehicle the pistol can be or whether it's locked up. I disagree. Notice (i) and (ii) are not separated by an "or" as shown with (iii) in that RCW which gives the option vehicle storing while 'away from the vehicle". It's clear as day. But it is a list so it has to meet one of those three requirements. Commas can take the place of and, but, or, nor, for, so, yet. In this case it can be argued that since the list of requirements says or at the end the comma means or. |
| Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:07 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: Burien Joined: Wed Oct 5, 2011 Posts: 3308
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MadPick wrote: Well, I *think* that you guys are misinterpreting it. However, I'm not 100% sure of this. When the law says, "X, Y or Z" then I think that's equivalent to "X or Y or Z," not "X and Y or Z." "You must buy Winchester, Remington, or Mossberg" means you need to buy any one of those. "You must buy Winchester, Remington, and Mossberg" means you need to buy all three. Check out this web page: http://leg.wa.gov/CodeReviser/Documents ... nStyle.pdf The second paragraph from the top caught my eye: Code: (i) In a series of three or more words or phrases, a comma is used after each item except the last, as in "officers, deputies, and employees." This rule applies to both conjunctive, "and," and disjunctive, "or," series. The phrases "conjunctive series" and "disjunctive series" got me thinking. Here's my thing. I'd agree with you IF the listed was started with the conjunction 'if'. But it starts with 'and'; and then ends with an 'or' option. Example below. Quote: A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol if: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle. Did it change the way you interpret the list of options? It did for me. I ain't a writer. _________________ Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. |
| Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:22 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: White Center Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 6489
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CurtisLemansky wrote: dagamore wrote: MadPick wrote: Well, I *think* that you guys are misinterpreting it. However, I'm not 100% sure of this. When the law says, "X, Y or Z" then I think that's equivalent to "X or Y or Z," not "X and Y or Z." Too bad that courts have upheld it to mean the following, X and Y or only Z, not any of the three but the first two or the third with out either of the first two being applicable. What court cases have upheld that interpretation? Sent from my UAV using Disposition Matrix 2.0 I would also like to see those court cases. |
| Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:46 am |
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 Site Supporter  Location: Faxon, OK Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 Posts: 17822 Real Name: Chuck
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Real simple. If you have a CPL, you can have a loaded pistol anywhere in the car. I got stopped by WSP, and he asked if I had a gun. Told him yes, and that it was in glove box. He said fine, just leave it alone. BTW in WA you do NOT have to tell LEO that you have a gun, unless asked.
_________________ "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux |
| Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:51 am |
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Site Moderator   Location: Renton/Kent Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 Posts: 3550 Real Name: Jacy
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golddigger14s wrote: Real simple. If you have a CPL, you can have a loaded pistol anywhere in the car. I got stopped by WSP, and he asked if I had a gun. Told him yes, and that it was in glove box. He said fine, just leave it alone. BTW in WA you do NOT have to tell LEO that you have a gun, unless asked. I've had multiple encounters with LE and never once have they asked if I had a gun on me or in the car. I always carry concealed and one time was on the way to a firearms course in E. WA with many guns and thousands of rounds of ammo in the back. I find it interesting that this is even a discussion. |
| Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:53 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Index Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 Posts: 12963 Real Name: Jeff
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Shades of Clinton!
"Depends on what the meaning of "is" is... _________________ -Jeff How can I help you, and/or make you smile, today? You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to tell me what mine must be. Do justice. Love mercy. “I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ~ Richard P. Feynman |
| Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:50 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Lynnwood/Bothell Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 Posts: 8565 Real Name: Curtis
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mislabeled wrote: Women carry guns in their purses all the time and you don't hear about them encountering trouble with this law. I was pulled over once when my gun was in my purse and the trooper was thoroughly uninterested in the fact that it wasn't on me. Also, using only one "or" at the end of a list means that only one of the conditions must be met. That's how every other RCW is structured so there's no reason to treat this one differently. ^This. Only one of the conditions outlined in the RCW must be met in order to legally have a loaded pistol in your vehicle, provided you have your CPL to begin with. That means your backpack, purse, center console, dashboard, etc., are all permitted places to keep a loaded pistol as long as you remain in the vehicle with it at all times. |
| Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:15 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: Earth Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 Posts: 1188 Real Name: Lewy the Deplorable
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If I'm not in my vehicle I can't have my loaded pistol locked in my lock box. The pistol can be loaded anytime, anywhere, while I'm present in the vehicle.
Got it....I think. _________________ NRA life member Μολὼν λαβέ I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient. I will get to you shortly. Also, please forgive my spelling or grammatical errors. If my post doesn't make sense or is not amusing, it's technology's fault and most certainly not operator ɹoɹɹǝ. Thank You |
| Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:33 am |
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Site Supporter Location: Lynnwood/Bothell Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 Posts: 8565 Real Name: Curtis
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Lew wrote: If I'm not in my vehicle I can't have my loaded pistol locked in my lock box. The pistol can be loaded anytime, anywhere, while I'm present in the vehicle. Got it....I think. You can leave it loaded in the car when you leave the car, but the car needs to be locked and the gun needs to be out of view. But my understanding is that this still requires you to have a valid CPL. |
| Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:46 am |
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Site Supporter  Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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UpDog wrote: Here's my thing. I'd agree with you IF the listed was started with the conjunction 'if'. But it starts with 'and'; and then ends with an 'or' option. Yeah, no. It the sentence ends with or, then every comma preceding it means or, etc. |
| Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:37 pm |
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 Location: Ft Benning Ga Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 Posts: 501
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Benja455 wrote: CurtisLemansky wrote: dagamore wrote: MadPick wrote: Well, I *think* that you guys are misinterpreting it. However, I'm not 100% sure of this. When the law says, "X, Y or Z" then I think that's equivalent to "X or Y or Z," not "X and Y or Z." Too bad that courts have upheld it to mean the following, X and Y or only Z, not any of the three but the first two or the third with out either of the first two being applicable. What court cases have upheld that interpretation? Sent from my UAV using Disposition Matrix 2.0 sorry I cant find anything that is Washington specific, I could very well be wrong, I hope I am, but thats what I get for having lived and getting a CPL in more than a few states. Sorry if I lead anyone down the wrong path. Brad. I would also like to see those court cases. |
| Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:42 pm |
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Location: Port Angeles, Wa. Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 Posts: 71 Real Name: Jack
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4liberty, has it right. You can leave your loaded pistol in an unattended vehicle locked up in a box and/
or covered and out of sight. .................................. Jack |
| Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:36 pm |
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 Location: Kent Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 Posts: 59
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 Last edited by Korben on Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:36 am, edited 2 times in total. |
| Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:32 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: N-Sno Joined: Thu Oct 3, 2013 Posts: 4015
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Except isn't the driver responsible for pretty much everything in a vehicle unless a passenger specifically cops to it? Implying that a gun in my purse, for example, could be construed as belonging to someone else is reaching.
_________________ "Hmmm. I've been looking for a way to serve the community that incorporates my violence." -- Leela |
| Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:35 pm |
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