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Forum rules
Nothing contained in this section shall be construed as legal advice. All members and guests are advised to perform due diligence in regards to laws and legal actions.
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rodell
Site Supporter
Location: Free At last in NC! Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 Posts: 701
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Zero. They all have formed a common trust that names each of them and their firearms. All of the firearms were full auto and the ammo cost exceeded their annual incomes.
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Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:28 am |
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3584ELK
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Lake Andes, S. Dakota Joined: Thu Aug 8, 2013 Posts: 1253
Real Name: Mark
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Not wanting to start a new thread on I-594 and it's associated bullshit, I thought I would try getting an answer here:
Having graduated high school and some assorted higher education, I thought I could read and comprehend, but RCW 9.41.090 seems to be throwing me a curve ball- missing one word which would change the entire meaning of the law. Let me illustrate:
RCW 9.41.090 Dealer deliveries regulated—Hold on delivery. (1) In addition to the other requirements of this chapter, no dealer may deliver a pistol to the purchaser thereof until: (a) The purchaser produces a valid concealed pistol license and the dealer has recorded the purchaser's name, license number, and issuing agency, such record to be made in triplicate and processed as provided in subsection (5) of this section. For purposes of this subsection (1)(a), a "valid concealed pistol license" does not include a temporary emergency license, and does not include any license issued before July 1, 1996, unless the issuing agency conducted a records search for disqualifying crimes under RCW 9.41.070 at the time of issuance; (b) The dealer is notified in writing by the chief of police or the sheriff of the jurisdiction in which the purchaser resides that the purchaser is eligible to possess a pistol under RCW 9.41.040 and that the application to purchase is approved by the chief of police or sheriff; or (c) The requirements or time periods in RCW 9.41.092 have been satisfied. (2)(a) Except as provided in (b) of this subsection....
This seems to mean that (1)(a) AND (1)(b) must be complied with. Note there is no "or" following the end of the sentence in (1)(a), as there is in (1)(b). Should there not be an or added, thereby appearing as such:
RCW 9.41.090 Dealer deliveries regulated—Hold on delivery. (1) In addition to the other requirements of this chapter, no dealer may deliver a pistol to the purchaser thereof until: (a) The purchaser produces a valid concealed pistol license and the dealer has recorded the purchaser's name, license number, and issuing agency, such record to be made in triplicate and processed as provided in subsection (5) of this section. For purposes of this subsection (1)(a), a "valid concealed pistol license" does not include a temporary emergency license, and does not include any license issued before July 1, 1996, unless the issuing agency conducted a records search for disqualifying crimes under RCW 9.41.070 at the time of issuance; or (b) The dealer is notified in writing by the chief of police or the sheriff of the jurisdiction in which the purchaser resides that the purchaser is eligible to possess a pistol under RCW 9.41.040 and that the application to purchase is approved by the chief of police or sheriff; or (c) The requirements or time periods in RCW 9.41.092 have been satisfied. (2)(a) Except as provided in (b) of this subsection...
As written and current, presenting a CPL gives a purchaser ZERO advantage over a non-CPL holder. WTF?
For those who disregard and say "they know they screwed up the law" I would suggest that there is probably more than one asst. D.A. who would love to pounce on this to make an example of an (apparently) wayward FFL who transfers a pistol to a CPL holder on the same day as payment is made.
_________________"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson
Last edited by 3584ELK on Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:50 am |
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PMB
In Memoriam
Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013 Posts: 12018
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AR15L wrote: usrifle wrote: Comply? And add what SC had to say about 594 supporters too. In triplicate. Disgusting trash.
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Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:54 am |
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cmica
Site Supporter
Location: I-5 /512 Joined: Thu Dec 8, 2011 Posts: 15231
Real Name: chris
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PMB wrote: AR15L wrote: usrifle wrote: Comply? And add what SC had to say about 594 supporters too. In triplicate. Disgusting trash. INFINITY!!!!
_________________
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Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:24 am |
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ANZAC
Site Supporter
Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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3584ELK wrote: This seems to mean that (1)(a) AND (1)(b) must be complied with. Note there is no "or" following the end of the sentence in (1)(a), as there is in (1)(b). Should there not be an or added, thereby appearing as such Welcome to reading state law. This is not an error in drafting. The "or" (or "and") is implied to apply across the enter set of subsections. i.e. aaaa; bbbb; or cccc means aaaa or bbbb or cccc and aaaa; bbbb; and cccc means aaaa and bbbb and cccc (this is actually mentioned somewhere in state law, I couldn't find it --- but pretty much every RCW section has a similar construction.)
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Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:18 am |
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ANZAC
Site Supporter
Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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PMB wrote: AR15L wrote: usrifle wrote: Comply? And add what SC had to say about 594 supporters too. In triplicate. Disgusting trash. Don't you mean "state law" supporters?
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Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:19 am |
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Soldier_Citizen
Site Supporter
Location: south 'merca Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 Posts: 9738
Real Name: Mike
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ANZAC wrote: PMB wrote: AR15L wrote: usrifle wrote: Comply? And add what SC had to say about 594 supporters too. In triplicate. Disgusting trash. Don't you mean "state law" supporters? Those who support it, voted for it, and donate money for the "cause".
_________________"No Quarter, No Mercy" mash_man wrote: #gangbangerlivesmatter
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Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:30 am |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52038
Real Name: Steve
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Give it a rest . . . Jesus.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:37 am |
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Soldier_Citizen
Site Supporter
Location: south 'merca Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 Posts: 9738
Real Name: Mike
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MadPick wrote: Give it a rest . . . Jesus. Do you need a hug? Or cake? We have some left over cake you can have.
_________________"No Quarter, No Mercy" mash_man wrote: #gangbangerlivesmatter
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Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:43 am |
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heavychevy1
Site Supporter
Location: Lacey, WA Joined: Sun Aug 7, 2011 Posts: 419
Real Name: Shawn
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MadPick wrote: I love it!
And this brings up a question. I know that an FFL cannot sell a gun anywhere but at his place of business or a gun show. What's the law regarding doing a transfer? If the FFL is putting the gun into his log book and then transferring it back out, is that the same as selling a gun from the location standpoint? One thing that I misunderstand is how people still do transfers at gun shows where that's not the address for the FFL. What if he has all the same setup to do the checks and goes out to an area like a gravel pit and has connectivity; could he do the checks from there if he has the capability? Can someone explain that? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
_________________ US Army 2004-2013 NRA Life Member
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Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:46 pm |
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Massivedesign
Site Admin
Location: Olympia, WA Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 38307
Real Name: Dan
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NO. FFLs are allowed to conduct business at their business license location as well as trade shows, per the BATFE
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Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:00 pm |
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heavychevy1
Site Supporter
Location: Lacey, WA Joined: Sun Aug 7, 2011 Posts: 419
Real Name: Shawn
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How is a determination made where a trade/gun show can be held? All I could find is this- https://www.atf.gov/file/56651/download and this- http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c= ... 10&idno=27Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
_________________ US Army 2004-2013 NRA Life Member
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Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:23 am |
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Massivedesign
Site Admin
Location: Olympia, WA Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 38307
Real Name: Dan
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https://www.atf.gov/file/56446/downloadQuote: A Gun Show or other qualifying event is defined in 27 CFR 478.100(b) as a “gun show or an event is a function sponsored by any national, State, or local organization, devoted to the collection competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms, or an organization or association that sponsors functions devoted to the collec- tion, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms in the community.”
If you can answer “yes” to both of the following questions, your event does qualify as a gun show. 1. Is this event a function sponsored by any national, State, or local organization? 2. Is that organization devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms, or (as well) is it an organization or association that sponsors functions devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms in the community?
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Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:40 am |
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Col_Temp
Site Supporter
Location: Lake Stevens Joined: Fri Jan 3, 2014 Posts: 6213
Real Name: Paris
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Massivedesign wrote: https://www.atf.gov/file/56446/downloadQuote: A Gun Show or other qualifying event is defined in 27 CFR 478.100(b) as a “gun show or an event is a function sponsored by any national, State, or local organization, devoted to the collection competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms, or an organization or association that sponsors functions devoted to the collec- tion, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms in the community.”
If you can answer “yes” to both of the following questions, your event does qualify as a gun show. 1. Is this event a function sponsored by any national, State, or local organization? 2. Is that organization devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms, or (as well) is it an organization or association that sponsors functions devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms in the community? So by that definition it would only qualify if some local organization was sponsoring it. So someone has to have a business license and be the official sponsor, which means they need to have insurance to cover the liability of the event. They are responsible for filing all legal and environmental paperwork to hold the event. Report as a taxable event to he state and feds. and on and on and on.... Back the OP. Aren't math problems fun!
_________________Paris You can never be too prepared. Consider the ant thou sluggard. Proverbs 27:12 -- “A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions. The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.”Need Long term Food or Survival Supplies, I have extras, Grab the Supplies_Available.pdf. Prices Quoted are close to my actual cost: https://backupcomputing.workplace.datto.com/filelink/6af06-883bf7e-31d469c0e1-2Link corrected 1/30/2021. The prudent Wagunner trains and prepares to defend themselves and their families, friends, and neighbors. They also are prepared to feed, shelter, and provide aid as well. Danger is coming and may already be here, how prepared are you? Click the link above for lots of good info to get started.
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Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:40 pm |
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