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 WAGR's Next Firearm Initiative 
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kf7mjf wrote:
Alpine wrote:
kf7mjf wrote:
Then we need to take better charge of the narrative. As a culture we've got nothing other than our internal buzzwords, the assumption anyone who isn't in total agreement is an enemy, irrational fear mongering and an inability to really reach out, because gun politics are mired with other politics that most people don't take seriously. (I'm looking at you religious right and militia nutters)

We don't control the narrative, we don't offer solutions, and sometimes we sound insane.

While I agree we should control the "narrative" this idea that it's our job to "offer solutions" is absurd. Why? 2/3 of all firearm deaths are suicides. Yet the US is #50 in the world for suicide rate under dozens of first world countries that ban or heavily restrict guns, such as France, Belgium, South Korea, Japan, Montenegro, etc. This proves that 2/3 of firearm deaths in the US would likely happen with or without guns. Whittle the number down to the ~10k homicides and gun murder becomes statistically insignificant compared to other murder and violent death.

However, if you really want to reduce those remaining 10k murders, according to the FBI over 80% of them are being committed by repeat felons who keep getting let out of jail by soft-hearted legislatures and courts, ie: Tuba Man Killer who will be out in 2030 in time to kill again for the 3rd time.

This is why any gun law is doomed to dismal failure and will have zero impact. Criminal control will be the only thing that reduces homicides, and suicides likely cannot be reduced much at all, or else what can we do that these other countries haven't tried for mental health?
.

You see what happens when we don't offer solutions. Somebody else does. It goes along with controlling the narrative.


Ok, what's your "solution" for reducing those 2/3 of firearm deaths that happen to be suicides? I've looked at the recent collaboration bill that SAF worked on that passed the state house, there is nothing in there that hasn't already been tried in any number of other countries that have a higher suicide rate than us.

I would argue there is no current solution available short of chaining all citizens to their beds to prevent suicide. Everything else has pretty much been tried. Some people are just going to kill themselves, and I speak as someone who has had suicide take a loved one.

_________________
If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto).
If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/
Quote:
“I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.”

https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738
Quote:
[Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"


Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:28 am
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You keep harping on suicide, although the obvious point of addressing the root causes of suicide come to mind. Meanwhile, you seem happy to let other people define issues, narratives and answers.

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Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:35 am
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"chaining all citizens to their beds to prevent suicide"

There are so many in King County who would volunteer for this, if they got a free iPad and WiFi.

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Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:45 am
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kf7mjf wrote:
You keep harping on suicide, although the obvious point of addressing the root causes of suicide come to mind. Meanwhile, you seem happy to let other people define issues, narratives and answers.

No I am not happy.

Here's my solution. We follow the FBI's facts to their natural conclusion.

Murder? Automatic life sentence, no parole. Murder while juvenile? 40 year sentence, no parole just to make sure the feds don't throw it out.

Severe battery, automatic 15-20 year sentence, no parole.

80% of homicides are being committed by repeat felons getting out of jail over and over. You eliminate that and take gun killings down to ~2,000 per year and they'll be almost vanished given our population size.

But this law accomplishes nothing. Why? Because people can still kill without guns and the penalty for filing a false report is basically nothing.

_________________
If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto).
If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/
Quote:
“I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.”

https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738
Quote:
[Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"


Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:18 pm
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You might want to reread what I wrote earlier about how I would consider this initiative to be ideal.

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"I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." - William Buckley, Jr.

"...steam, artillery and revolvers give to civilized man an irresistible power." -Perry Collins


Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:22 pm
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Hat-tip to Whitney from OCdotorg

Here is the official text:
http://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/initiat ... y=2016&t=p
Quote:
(3) In determining whether grounds for an extreme risk protection order exist, the court may consider any relevant evidence, including but not limited to any of the following:

(a) A recent act or threat of violence by the respondent against self or others, whether or not this violence involves a firearm;
(b) A pattern of acts or threats of violence within the past twelve months including but not limited to acts or threats of violence by the respondent against self or others;

(c) Any dangerous mental health issues;
(d) A violation of a protection order or no-contact order issued under chapter 7.90, 7.92, 10.14, 9A.46, 10.99, 26.50, or 26.52 RCW;

(e) A previous or existing extreme risk protection order;

(f) A violation of a previous or existing extreme risk protection order;

(g) A conviction for a crime that constitutes domestic violence as defined in RCW 10.99.020;

(h) Respondent’s ownership, access to, or intent to possess firearms;


(i) The unlawful or reckless use, display, or brandishing of a firearm by the respondent;
(j) The history of use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force by the respondent against another person or of stalking another person;
(k)Any prior arrest of the respondent for a felony offense or violent crime;
(l) Corroborated evidence of the abuse of controlled substances or alcohol; and
(m) Evidence of recent acquisition of firearms.


They are equating violence and prior criminal convictions to recently buying a gun in terms of evidence and justification...

If you support this and you recently purchased a gun then that is insane.

By the way, here is the ex-parte section:
Quote:
NEW SECTION. Sec. 6. Ex parte extreme risk protection order—hearing—issuance—contents.

(1) A petitioner may request that an ex parte extreme risk protection order be issued before a hearing for an extreme risk protection order, without notice to the respondent, by including in the petition detailed allegations based on personal knowledge that the respondent poses a significant danger of causing personal injury to self or others in the near future by having in his or her custody or control, purchasing, possessing, or receiving a firearm.

(2) In considering whether to issue an ex parte extreme risk protection order under this section, the court shall consider all relevant evidence, including evidence described in subsection 4(3) of this act.

(3) If a court finds there is reasonable cause to believe that the respondent poses a significant danger of causing personal injury to self or others in the near future by having in his or her custody or control, purchasing, possessing, or receiving a firearm, the court shall issue an ex parte extreme risk protection order.
(4) The court shall hold an ex parte extreme risk protection order hearing in person or by telephone on the day the petition is filed or on the following judicial day.

(5) In accordance with subsection 4(1) of this act, the court shall schedule a hearing within fourteen days of the issuance of an ex parte extreme risk protection order to determine if a one-year extreme risk protection order should issue under this chapter.

(6) An ex parte extreme risk protection order shall include:


A statement of the grounds asserted for the order;



The date and time the order was issued;



The date and time the order expires;



The address of the court in which any responsive pleading should be filed;



The date and time of the scheduled hearing;



A description of the requirements for surrender of firearms under section 9; and


(g) The following statement:

To the subject of this protection order: This order is valid until the date and time noted above. You are required to surrender all firearms in your custody, control, or possession .You may not have in your custody or control, purchase, possess, receive, or attempt to purchase or receive, a firearm while this order is in effect. You must surrender to the [insert name of local law enforcement agency] all firearms in your custody, control, or possession and any concealed pistol license issued to you under RCW 9.41.070A immediately. A hearing will be held on the date and at the time noted above to determine if an extreme risk protection order should be issued. Failure to appear at that hearing may result in a court making an order against you that is valid for one year. You may seek the advice of an attorney as to any matter connected with this order.”
(7) The ex parte extreme risk protection order shall expire upon the hearing on the extreme risk protection order.

(8) An ex parte extreme risk protection order shall be served by a law enforcement officer in the same manner as provided for in sections 4 and 5 of this act for service of the notice of hearing and petition, and shall be served concurrently with the notice of hearing and petition.

(9) If the court declines to issue an ex parte extreme risk protection order, the court shall state the particular reasons for the court’s denial.



And who can petition the court? Take a look:
Quote:
(1) “Petitioner” means a family or household member of the respondent or a law enforcement officer or agency.
(3) “Family or household member” means any person related by blood, marriage, or adoption, dating partners, persons who have a child in common regardless of whether they have been married or have lived together at any time, any person who resides or has resided with the respondent within the past year, domestic partners, persons who have a biological or legal parent-child relationship, including stepparents and stepchildren and grandparents and grandchildren, and any person who is acting or has acted as the respondent’s legal guardian.


Ex-girlfriend who is angry you broke up? Liberal roommate who hates your views? Guess what, like true cowards they're filing for an ex-parte order, and your first notice will be the nice policeman who shows up to serve you with the above note and take your guns. Hopefully you'll be lucky enough to find and pay for a good lawyer in 14 days or your guns are gone for a year.

_________________
If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto).
If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/
Quote:
“I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.”

https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738
Quote:
[Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"


Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:21 pm
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Well, they were out gathering signatures today for 1491. I talked with one of them for a while. Of course, nobody is going to change their mind, but I find it is good to know where people are coming from. Communication is good.

If you are against this, now is probably the time to start discussing with friends and family why you think it is bad. I think it is best to frame it as a civil liberties issue rather than gun rights. If this was about taking away a drivers license, I would probably have similar concerns.


Sun May 08, 2016 12:40 pm
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