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Bought my first reloads - something's not right
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Site Supporter   Location: Edgewood Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 Posts: 860 Real Name: Chip 
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I've always bought factory rounds, have never reloaded myself, and am admittedly pretty ignorant about load specs and tolerances. Which leads me to the issue I found after buying some bulk 45ACP reloads recently from a supplier that has a good rep from what I've seen. The manufacturer will remain nameless until I get some advice from those who know better than I. I have no desire to create a stink if it's unwarranted and I will likely want to give the manufacturer a chance to reply first. But being a holiday weekend and hoping for a chance to go shoot, my first priority is to determine of I should use the ammo, and I won't be able to get a reply from them until next week.
So please look at the pics below - the outside 2 rounds are factory Federal loads and the 2 in the middle are the reloads. You can see noticeable dents in the tops of the reload bullets and the overall length is much shorter due to the bullets being seated further into the case. Please let me know your thoughts on this - useable or not - usual or not? Was it a particular part of the process that likely wasn't set up correctly? There were 10 rounds out of a box of 250 that displayed the exact same symptoms so that seems like a high percentage to me. Thanks in advance for everyone's advice.   _________________ "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." Last edited by Chip on Sat May 24, 2014 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total. |
| Sat May 24, 2014 12:55 pm |
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Site Admin   Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52120 Real Name: Steve
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I wouldn't be so concerned about the comparison between the reloads and the Federal. The dents in the bullets also don't worry me too much . . . yeah, it's probably shoddy bullet quality but no big deal.
But . . . how much variation is there in the length of the reloaded cartridges? _________________ Steve Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association Life Member, Second Amendment Foundation Patriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of America Life Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms Legal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy Coalition Member, NAGR/NFGR Please support the organizations that support all of us. Leave it cleaner than you found it. |
| Sat May 24, 2014 1:01 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Edgewood Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 Posts: 860 Real Name: Chip
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I wasn't really worried about the dents other than it maybe being evidence of the likely part of the process that caused the deeper seating.
Again, I'm clueless about this and just wanting to make sure it's safe before the whole family starts throwing rounds downrange. The cases do seem to be right on for length, so that's good. The overall length is slightly different between the 2 reloads in the picture, and without calipers my best guess is about 1/16 diff on the longer one, maybe 5/64 on the other. _________________ "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." |
| Sat May 24, 2014 1:14 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: Seattle, Eastside Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 Posts: 220
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I would be concerned about minimum overall length and would not shoot them until you verify that they are ok. I have not seen a 45 ACP round seated that deeply and I would be cautious.
_________________ NRA Certified Instructor |
| Sat May 24, 2014 1:15 pm |
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Site Admin Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52120 Real Name: Steve
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Chip wrote: The overall length is slightly different between the 2 reloads in the picture, and without calipers my best guess is about 1/16 diff on the longer one, maybe 5/64 on the other. I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that one of the reloads is 1/16 shorter than the Federal ammo, and the other reload is 5/64 shorter than the Federal? In other words, there is about 1/16 difference between the two reloads? I'd be looking for consistency between the reloads, not necessarily a particular length. When you buy ammo like that, you have to place a certain amount of faith in the manufacturer . . . they used the right powder, the right amount of powder, and they have used an overall length that is suitable for the powder charge. If it were MY ammo, if the reloads looks fairly consistent, I'd go give them a try. _________________ Steve Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association Life Member, Second Amendment Foundation Patriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of America Life Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms Legal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy Coalition Member, NAGR/NFGR Please support the organizations that support all of us. Leave it cleaner than you found it. |
| Sat May 24, 2014 1:22 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: Marysville Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 Posts: 814
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Don't measure variance of the reloads to the factory as I assume that's what you meant. Also gonna say eyeballing anything regarding ammo is wreck less at best so get a caliper. Measure the variance if each reload to other reloads in the lot. Hopefully it's not global ammo.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk _________________ "You can judge the true character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him" |
| Sat May 24, 2014 1:26 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Marysville Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 Posts: 814
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Mad pick beat me. I would shoot them in the cheapest 45 I owned preferably a steel frame.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk _________________ "You can judge the true character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him" |
| Sat May 24, 2014 1:27 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Edgewood Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 Posts: 860 Real Name: Chip
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Both measurements were in relation to the federal loads, so about 1/64 difference between the 2 reloads.
Yeah I hate trying to guess small measurements like that too. The 2 questions my uneducated thoughts came up with were: Would the shorter overall length affect chambering? I'm guessing not since the case seems ok. Would the bullet being seated deeper create a different burn / pressure that could be a concern? I wasn't planning to have to do this kind of research before going shooting, but I guess I will have to bite the bullet and get educated.... ;-) Thanks for all the feedback, I will be contacting the manufacturer and hope I have enough federal to get us through the weekend. _________________ "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." |
| Sat May 24, 2014 1:33 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Edgewood Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 Posts: 860 Real Name: Chip
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IRackNBack wrote: Mad pick beat me. I would shoot them in the cheapest 45 I owned preferably a steel frame. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Only have one - a G21 - so cheap enough I guess. _________________ "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." |
| Sat May 24, 2014 1:35 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Edgewood Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 Posts: 860 Real Name: Chip
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IRackNBack wrote: Don't measure variance of the reloads to the factory as I assume that's what you meant. Also gonna say eyeballing anything regarding ammo is wreck less at best so get a caliper. Measure the variance if each reload to other reloads in the lot. Hopefully it's not global ammo. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk All but 10 out of 250 matched the federal sizing and didn't have the dents on the heads of the bullets. Those 10 all seem to be pretty close in their (under) sizing. _________________ "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." |
| Sat May 24, 2014 1:37 pm |
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Site Admin Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52120 Real Name: Steve
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Chip wrote: All but 10 out of 250 matched the federal sizing and didn't have the dents on the heads of the bullets. Those 10 all seem to be pretty close in their (under) sizing. Ahhhhh . . . OK, that's what I wanted to know. Yeah, I'd toss those 10 in the trash if they're significantly shorter than the other 240. I wouldn't shoot them. Chip wrote: Would the shorter overall length affect chambering? Yes, variations in OAL (overall length) can affect feeding and chambering. You don't really know if/how until you try it. Chip wrote: Would the bullet being seated deeper create a different burn / pressure that could be a concern? Yes, seating the bullet deeper increases pressure. Since 240/250 of your rounds have a certain OAL, I assume that that is the OAL that matches the powder charge. The shorter OAL of the remaining 10 rounds, assuming they have the same powder charge as the others, means that they will have a higher pressure when fired. So yeah, I wouldn't shoot those 10 rounds. _________________ Steve Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association Life Member, Second Amendment Foundation Patriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of America Life Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms Legal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy Coalition Member, NAGR/NFGR Please support the organizations that support all of us. Leave it cleaner than you found it. |
| Sat May 24, 2014 1:45 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Edgewood Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 Posts: 860 Real Name: Chip
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Perfect, thanks. I emailed the company as well and will see what they say. Besides the QC and safety issues, with the cost of 45 (even these reloads) being what it is, that's several dollars worth of product going in the trash!
And no it wasn't global.... _________________ "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." |
| Sat May 24, 2014 1:55 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: East of Japan, not by much. Joined: Fri Jun 3, 2011 Posts: 12992
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So, detective work over, but don't trash the out of overall length bullets - hand them back to the manufacturer for replacement, and feedback.
Quality control helps him, helps you, and might result in a free box of replacement ammo. Just sayin' . It is always better to be part of the solution, not the problem. _________________ Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Give a man a fishing pole, and he will drink too much beer, get tangled in fish line, hook himself in the nose casting, fall overboard, and either drown, or, go home hungry and wet. Give a man a case of dynamite, and he will feed the whole town for a year! BE ON NOTICE: PRIVACY NOTICE: Warning - any person and/or institution and/or Agent and/or Agency of any governmental structure including but not limited to the United States Federal Government also using or monitoring/using this website or any of its associated websites, you do NOT have my permission to utilize any of my profile information nor any of the content contained herein including, but not limited to my photos, and/or the comments made about my photos or any other "picture" art posted on my profile. You are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing, disseminating, or taking any other action against me with regard to this profile and the contents herein. The foregoing prohibitions also apply to your employee, agent, student or any personnel under your direction or control. The contents of this profile are PRIVATE and legally privileged and confidential information, and the violation of my personal privacy is punishable by law. UCC 1-103 1-308 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED WITHOUT PREJUDICE |
| Sat May 24, 2014 2:00 pm |
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Site Supporter Location: Edgewood Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 Posts: 860 Real Name: Chip
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That was my intent all along. My email to the manufacturer was polite and asked the same kind of questions I asked here, rather than making accusations. And yes, I have the bad rounds set aside ready to do whatever may be requested by the company.
In the end I get better educated too, so thanks again to everyone. _________________ "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped." |
| Sat May 24, 2014 2:06 pm |
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Site Supporter  Location: West Phoenix, AZ Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 Posts: 3909
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I would not shoot them... it looks like the bullet is set back too deep
It looks like the machine jammed and put the bullets in farther than normal |
| Sat May 24, 2014 4:27 pm |
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