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It is currently Tue May 14, 2024 6:05 pm
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Kesselring's going out of business...
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CQBgopher
Site Supporter
Location: WA/MT Joined: Thu Sep 6, 2012 Posts: 8302
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I have the pdf version from the Skagit Herald if anyone wants it PM me your email
_________________ Rara Temporum Felicitas Ubi Sentire Quae Velis Et Quod Velis Dicere Licet. ― Tacitus "Well, nobody's perfect." ― Osgood Fielding III
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Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:57 am |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52162
Real Name: Steve
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deadshot2 wrote: I don't know if the Admin's would like me to post the entire article. Thank you, good call.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:00 pm |
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ANZAC
Site Supporter
Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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Quote: The lawsuit cites company checks, credit card statements and receipts that show Don bought a $25,000 “muscle car” and a $55,000 shooting club membership and made other personal purchases with company funds. What shooting club has a $55,000 membership fee?!
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Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:33 pm |
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deadshot2
Site Supporter
Location: Marysville, WA Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
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ANZAC wrote: Quote: The lawsuit cites company checks, credit card statements and receipts that show Don bought a $25,000 “muscle car” and a $55,000 shooting club membership and made other personal purchases with company funds. What shooting club has a $55,000 membership fee?! $25,000 muscle car? What was it, a new "Dodge Charger" or an overpriced 68 Mustang? As for the expensive membership fee? You must not get out much Valhalla Shooting club at the Elk Mountain Resort between Montrose and Telluride (CO) is $68,000.00. Lots of expensive "clubs" out there. I was invited to play golf at Sand Hill's GC back in 2002 by the VP of a Company I used to work for. The "Buy-In" to that "club" was a modest $250k and total membership was limited to 150. Incredible course that was perfectly maintained. Cabins next to a stream and a Restaurant that rivaled the best anywhere in the US. Only problem was that it was in the middle of effing nowhere, in the Sand Hills of Nebraska (N. of N. Platte) about 90 miles or so. When those guy's wanted to get away from it all, they really did. Not even a local airstrip to fly their own planes into although some supposedly flew into one of the towns along the Interstate and chartered a helicopter to drop them at the first tee To me, it didn't make any sense but then I didn't have that kind of money to spend anyway. These guys apparently did.
_________________ "I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"
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"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother" - William Shakespeare
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Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:49 pm |
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solyanik
Site Supporter / FFL Dealer
Location: Seattle Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 Posts: 3420
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deadshot2 wrote: To me, it didn't make any sense but then I didn't have that kind of money to spend anyway. These guys apparently did. Either that, or they also used company funds...
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Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:12 pm |
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Benja455
Site Supporter
Location: White Center Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 6489
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ANZAC wrote: Benja455 wrote: With that many guns missing and sales without checking ID - I don't think I can even support the new store with a clear conscious.
This is pretty sickening to hear about. Why? Why is it sickening? I prefer 2,000+ guns weren't on the street in the hands of criminals. Pretty simple.
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Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:37 am |
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ANZAC
Site Supporter
Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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Benja455 wrote: ANZAC wrote: Benja455 wrote: With that many guns missing and sales without checking ID - I don't think I can even support the new store with a clear conscious.
This is pretty sickening to hear about. Why? Why is it sickening? I prefer 2,000+ guns weren't on the street in the hands of criminals. Pretty simple. So you think background checks are a-ok? Shocking - I thought everyone here didn't think they were effective.
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Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:28 am |
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Benja455
Site Supporter
Location: White Center Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 6489
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ANZAC wrote: Benja455 wrote: ANZAC wrote: Benja455 wrote: With that many guns missing and sales without checking ID - I don't think I can even support the new store with a clear conscious.
This is pretty sickening to hear about. Why? Why is it sickening? I prefer 2,000+ guns weren't on the street in the hands of criminals. Pretty simple. So you think background checks are a-ok? Shocking - I thought everyone here didn't think they were effective. Background checks absolutely work...buy from a dealer, pass a background check. Buy from me, I'll ask to see your CPL/WAC card. Pretty simple. And I'd be happy to allow the .gov to mandate background checks if they would open the NICS system to civilian usage (via 1800 number, website or smart phone app)...although they should probably force all of the states to finally submit all of the missing mental health records.
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Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:29 am |
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deadshot2
Site Supporter
Location: Marysville, WA Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
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Benja455 wrote: ANZAC wrote: Benja455 wrote: With that many guns missing and sales without checking ID - I don't think I can even support the new store with a clear conscious.
This is pretty sickening to hear about. Why? Why is it sickening? I prefer 2,000+ guns weren't on the street in the hands of criminals. Pretty simple. Nobody ever said the guns they couldn't account for were "on the street in the hands of criminals". They just weren't properly logged OUT of the bound book the FFL's have to keep. For all you and I know the background checks were made and the purchasers legit. Just the paperwork was sloppy. FWIW, people bitch and gripe about the ATF all they want. In this case they did just what the taxpayers are paying them to do. Make sure the paperwork is followed up on. Now, when one talks about UBC's, wouldn't have fixed this problem and unless they incorporate registration of firearms. UBC's won't even work for private sales.
_________________ "I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother" - William Shakespeare
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Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:56 pm |
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Benja455
Site Supporter
Location: White Center Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 6489
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deadshot2 wrote: Benja455 wrote: ANZAC wrote: Benja455 wrote: With that many guns missing and sales without checking ID - I don't think I can even support the new store with a clear conscious.
This is pretty sickening to hear about. Why? Why is it sickening? I prefer 2,000+ guns weren't on the street in the hands of criminals. Pretty simple. Nobody ever said the guns they couldn't account for were "on the street in the hands of criminals". They just weren't properly logged OUT of the bound book the FFL's have to keep. For all you and I know the background checks were made and the purchasers legit. Just the paperwork was sloppy. FWIW, people bitch and gripe about the ATF all they want. In this case they did just what the taxpayers are paying them to do. Make sure the paperwork is followed up on. Now, when one talks about UBC's, wouldn't have fixed this problem and unless they incorporate registration of firearms. UBC's won't even work for private sales. Are you joking? The article clearly states that at least one firearm was sold without a background check and many were sold without checking ID to confirm residency. As such, the paperwork was not squared away - at all. I stand by my statement, I won't do business with them.
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Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:39 pm |
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ANZAC
Site Supporter
Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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deadshot2 wrote: Nobody ever said the guns they couldn't account for were "on the street in the hands of criminals". Let me help you on that. Quote: April 2010: ATF flags the shop for selling more than 15 guns tied to crimes. February 2011: Gun shop flagged for having 10 or more guns used in crimes move through store. Quote: For all you and I know the background checks were made and the purchasers legit. Just the paperwork was sloppy.
I am thinking that is not likely the case for those 25 firearms. Quote: Now, when one talks about UBC's, wouldn't have fixed this problem and unless they incorporate registration of firearms. UBC's won't even work for private sales. So why do background checks from dealers seem to work without registration? In this case at least, 25 guns got into criminals hands (according to the ATF), so I'm thinking that somehow the criminals bought the guns, without a background check.
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Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:12 pm |
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etrigan420
Site Supporter
Location: Mt. Vernon Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 Posts: 373
Real Name: Matt
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ANZAC wrote: So why do background checks from dealers seem to work without registration? In this case at least, 25 guns got into criminals hands (according to the ATF), so I'm thinking that somehow the criminals bought the guns, without a background check. Well, like any other law, background check laws can only be effective if they are enforced and prosecuted...I'd really be interested to learn why no one (apparently) was prosecuted on the dealer side of those 20+ transactions. Having read all of this, I'm finding it more difficult to internally justify doing business with anyone in this family. It reads like a really bad soap opera. (Not that there is any other kind, but you get what I'm saying)
_________________Chrisb9381 wrote: +1 on banana hammocks
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Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:43 pm |
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ANZAC
Site Supporter
Location: 12 Acres in Eastern WA Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 Posts: 7251
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etrigan420 wrote: ANZAC wrote: So why do background checks from dealers seem to work without registration? In this case at least, 25 guns got into criminals hands (according to the ATF), so I'm thinking that somehow the criminals bought the guns, without a background check. Well, like any other law, background check laws can only be effective if they are enforced and prosecuted...I'd really be interested to learn why no one (apparently) was prosecuted on the dealer side of those 20+ transactions. Totally agree - an FFL that supplies a firearm to someone without conducting a background check is breaking federal law. I also can't see why their FFL wasn't pulled waaaay sooner.
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Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:29 pm |
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deadshot2
Site Supporter
Location: Marysville, WA Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 Posts: 11581
Real Name: Mike
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Benja455 wrote: Are you joking? The article clearly states that at least one firearm was sold without a background check and many were sold without checking ID to confirm residency. As such, the paperwork was not squared away - at all. I stand by my statement, I won't do business with them.
Doing business with them is rather moot. The old group doesn't have a license anymore to sell firearms. As for the comment on the firearms sold without checking ID or without background check the number involved were a long long way from the "2000" you initially commented on. Also, it was a cumulative total over a many year period of time. Not defending the actions of the stupid in the store but don't see how any new law will change anything like this. People will continue to make mistakes and ignore laws. Background checks only work where they're used because all those firearms are "registered" in the bound book maintained by the FFL. Private Sales without registration has no chance of doing anything more than just inconveniencing those that choose to follow the law. Sales will still take place among friends, acquaintances, and relatives and if there's no way to track the specific weapon then UBC's are just another unenforceable law.
_________________ "I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother" - William Shakespeare
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Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:50 am |
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Benja455
Site Supporter
Location: White Center Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 Posts: 6489
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deadshot2 wrote: Benja455 wrote: Are you joking? The article clearly states that at least one firearm was sold without a background check and many were sold without checking ID to confirm residency. As such, the paperwork was not squared away - at all. I stand by my statement, I won't do business with them.
Doing business with them is rather moot. The old group doesn't have a license anymore to sell firearms. As for the comment on the firearms sold without checking ID or without background check the number involved were a long long way from the "2000" you initially commented on. Also, it was a cumulative total over a many year period of time. Not defending the actions of the stupid in the store but don't see how any new law will change anything like this. People will continue to make mistakes and ignore laws. Background checks only work where they're used because all those firearms are "registered" in the bound book maintained by the FFL. Private Sales without registration has no chance of doing anything more than just inconveniencing those that choose to follow the law. Sales will still take place among friends, acquaintances, and relatives and if there's no way to track the specific weapon then UBC's are just another unenforceable law. 2 guns or 2000 guns...these people ignore the law and sell to criminals. That's not only illegal - it's immoral. Some of the family is opening a new store and I won't do business with them either. Not going to change my mind. I take this stuff pretty seriously. You're conflating this issue with UBCs and that's not the topic of this thread nor something I care to discuss - as it's been beat to death on this board.
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Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:58 am |
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