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5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland
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Site Admin  Real Name: Dan Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 15092 Location: Olympia, WA  
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 Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in OaklandJapan is a completely different society, country and set of standards.. Apples to Apples.
_________________ Dan aka massivedesign MadPick wrote: It's interesting that our president trusts North Korea with nukes, but doesn't trust me with a 30-round magazine. |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:31 am |
 
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 Real Name: Thomas Sal Lammy Joined: Wed Nov 9, 2011 Posts: 3395 Location: Mountus Labias, WA, US fucking A
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Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland Japan has an extremely high suicide rate also. Just proving a point that comparing us to them has nothing to do with the price of tea in Tokyo.
_________________ Eating lead paint chips will give you diminished mental capacity. אני מזהה Supremo EL בחדר בחלק העליון של המדרגות ..... |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:36 am |
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Site Supporter  Real Name: Hans Edlefreth Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 Posts: 5521 Location: Meath County 
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Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland Can you really compare the United States to any other country? Really?
The correct answer is: NO. You cannot. That's what makes this nation special. It is unlike any other nation in the history of civilization. No matter what solyanik thinks. _________________ There are only two dirty words in the English language. "Government" and "Taxes". As for the rest, if it is good enough for a sailor... it is good enough for you. "Gunpowder crackhead" "America's not a country. It's just a business." |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:40 am |
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Site Supporter  Real Name: Michael Not Mike Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 Posts: 4751 Location: Yelm
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Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland How many Americans have you heard of that risk life and limb to get out of here? you know swim shark filled water walk across a deseret for days on end? now if obama gets re-elected that just might happen
 but as far as right now? nope no way never bhpdrew wrote: Can you really compare the United States to any other country? Really? The correct answer is: NO. You cannot. That's what makes this nation special. It is unlike any other nation in the history of civilization. No matter what solyanik thinks. _________________ He who does not punish evil commands it to be done. --- Leonardo DaVinci  Hyiuheehee wrote: I used to have a Mini, but theyre so damn small, I kept grabbin' my buddy's dick when I was trying to shift... |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:50 am |
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Real Name: Thomas Sal Lammy Joined: Wed Nov 9, 2011 Posts: 3395 Location: Mountus Labias, WA, US fucking A
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Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland I don't have a gear low enough to compare us to Zimbabwe, Brazil, Japan, or Macedonia.
Welcome to reality. It is sobering, eh? _________________ Eating lead paint chips will give you diminished mental capacity. אני מזהה Supremo EL בחדר בחלק העליון של המדרגות ..... |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:52 am |
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Site Supporter  Real Name: Jaime Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 Posts: 1984 Location: Duvall
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Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland So places like Chicago, Baltimore, DC or even the state of Kalifornia that have strict gun control policies have the highest gun violence. Why is gun control in those locations not working? Hell, DC has more murders than deaths due to the Gulf war. More deaths in one city than 2 entire countries... Something to ponder.
EDIT: American deaths in the Gulf. _________________ NRA Member NRA Certified Rifle and Pistol Instructor NRA Range Safety Officer SAF Donor CCRKBA Donor |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:33 pm |
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Site Supporter  Joined: Fri Jun 3, 2011 Posts: 5470 Location: East of the Emerald City.
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Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland solyanik wrote: Massivedesign wrote: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl20.xls Washington had 93 firearm related deaths in 2010, California had 1,257 California has 5.52 times the people.. So statistically, per the population, the score would be 93 to 228... In this game, low score wins. Ok, let's dance. Homicide rate in USA (relaxed gun laws) - 4.55 per 100000 in 2000. Japan (http://ca-in-sapporo.blogspot.com/2011/ ... n-sic.html) - 0.5. Here we go, guns cause violent crime, a mathematical proof :-), just like above. In Japan, all the whacko's commit suicide - the socially acceptable way of doing yourself in before you become a societal problem. _________________ Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Give a man a fishing pole, and he will drink too much beer, get tangled in fish line, hook himself in the nose casting, fall overboard, and either drown, or, go home hungry and wet. Give a man a case of dynamite, and he will feed the whole town for a year! BE ON NOTICE: PRIVACY NOTICE: Warning - any person and/or institution and/or Agent and/or Agency of any governmental structure including but not limited to the United States Federal Government also using or monitoring/using this website or any of its associated websites, you do NOT have my permission to utilize any of my profile information nor any of the content contained herein including, but not limited to my photos, and/or the comments made about my photos or any other "picture" art posted on my profile. You are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing, disseminating, or taking any other action against me with regard to this profile and the contents herein. The foregoing prohibitions also apply to your employee, agent, student or any personnel under your direction or control. The contents of this profile are PRIVATE and legally privileged and confidential information, and the violation of my personal privacy is punishable by law. UCC 1-103 1-308 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED WITHOUT PREJUDICE |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:34 pm |
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Site Admin  Real Name: Steve Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 8701 Location: Renton, WA
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Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland Statistics are hard to pin down . . . .
Does DC have high crime because of their strict gun laws? Or did they pass the strict gun laws because of the high crime rate? Does anyone know? How about Chicago or California? I don't know the answers myself. I suspect a little of each is true. In the end, we can all scream BS at the other guy's statistics, and on things like this I think we just need to go with our guts. _________________ Steve Leave it cleaner than you found it. |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:14 pm |
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Site Supporter / FFL Dealer  Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 Posts: 1142 Location: Seattle
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Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland Massivedesign wrote: Japan is a completely different society, country and set of standards.. Apples to Apples. You compared WA to CA. Completely different states. WA consists of a combination of SF and rural South California demographically. There is nothing even remotely resembling LA around here where I imagine all the murders are happening. So if you can use this comparison to prove that CA gun laws don't work, I can use a similarly nonsensical comparison to Japan to prove that they do :-). To all this people on the thread screaming bloody murder - please read the whole thread. I am not really claiming that the gun laws are working (or not). I am not taking position on this subject. What I am saying is societies are extremely complex machines, and it is extremely hard to isolate causes and effects of the laws, so using one incident when someone was killed in CA as a proof that their gun laws don't work (or do work) is silly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:29 pm |
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Site Supporter Real Name: Hans Edlefreth Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 Posts: 5521 Location: Meath County
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Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland solyanik wrote: I am not taking position on this subject. Actually, I believe you are and have. Every time a thread like this comes about you have the same response. You're good at misdirection and not really facing the music. As it were. You've shown it here. Please, (once again) expand on what it is you think would be responsible gun restriction. Perhaps comparing the US to Mexico would have been a more accurate comparison. Oh wait... That wouldn't support your argument. ...and sourcing Wikipedia is like going to a Whores house to find a wife. Try harder. Please. This message brought to you by: Leprechauns for a greener tomorrow. _________________ There are only two dirty words in the English language. "Government" and "Taxes". As for the rest, if it is good enough for a sailor... it is good enough for you. "Gunpowder crackhead" "America's not a country. It's just a business." |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:47 pm |
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Site Supporter Real Name: Jaime Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 Posts: 1984 Location: Duvall
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Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland It is my opinion that schools will continue to be a target rich environment when gun control advocates continue to have their way regarding gun laws. This could not have been prevented but less deaths if the students or teacher were allowed to carry open or concealed.
_________________ NRA Member NRA Certified Rifle and Pistol Instructor NRA Range Safety Officer SAF Donor CCRKBA Donor |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:28 pm |
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Site Supporter / FFL Dealer Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 Posts: 1142 Location: Seattle
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Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland I don't know what a responsible gun regulation should be. I do know it's not zero. When a thread comes up that blames every evil on gun regulations, I respond to that.
If I were to guess, I would say that requiring (free?) basic firearms training before allowing people to acquire guns would be reasonable. Enforcing a uniform set of rules on in-state as well as out-of-state purchases would be reasonable (so a background check is performed, perhaps through some free-to-users channel, on FTF transactions within state). Whatever is required to minimize the number of stupid accidents + insane people going on shooting sprees. |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:48 pm |
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Site Admin Real Name: Dan Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 15092 Location: Olympia, WA
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Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland solyanik wrote: If I were to guess, I would say that requiring (free?) basic firearms training before allowing people to acquire guns would be reasonable. In this case, and a lot of others, do you think that required firearms safety classes would have stopped the attacks? It seems to me he was pretty proficient in the use of his weapon and knew what he was aiming at. solyanik wrote: Enforcing a uniform set of rules on in-state as well as out-of-state purchases would be reasonable (so a background check is performed, perhaps through some free-to-users channel, on FTF transactions within state). Whatever is required to minimize the number of stupid accidents + insane people going on shooting sprees. Was this person ineligible to own firearms? Would this above restriction prevented the shooting at the school? I guess my point is; It doesn't matter if it is a life criminal behind the trigger or just a gun owner having a bad day.... Nobody at that school had the ability to defend themselves against the aggressor. They didn't have that ability because it was illegal. So they followed the law, and got killed. All I want in life is the natural right, the right to live and to chose my life. My right to live could very well depend on my ability to defend myself. _________________ Dan aka massivedesign MadPick wrote: It's interesting that our president trusts North Korea with nukes, but doesn't trust me with a 30-round magazine. |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:06 pm |
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Site Supporter / FFL Dealer Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 Posts: 1142 Location: Seattle
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Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland Massivedesign wrote: In this case, and a lot of others, do you think that required firearms safety classes would have stopped the attacks? It seems to me he was pretty proficient in the use of his weapon and knew what he was aiming at. Of course not! The point of regulations is to reduce, not prevent. And no regulation would prevent a premeditated murder. By the way, the same is true for self-defense - no amount of guns that you carry would prevent you from being sniped fom 200 meters away as you work in your yard. Massivedesign wrote: Was this person ineligible to own firearms? Would this above restriction prevented the shooting at the school? I guess my point is; It doesn't matter if it is a life criminal behind the trigger or just a gun owner having a bad day.... Nobody at that school had the ability to defend themselves against the aggressor. They didn't have that ability because it was illegal. So they followed the law, and got killed. All I want in life is the natural right, the right to live and to chose my life. My right to live could very well depend on my ability to defend myself. Don't know about this guy, but the person who shot a congresswoman in AZ did have a history of mental instability. WRT school firearm ownership - let's say you have two schools you can chose to send your kid to. One allows any kid to bring guns to school (and in our mental experiment, kids are allowed to have handguns), the other doesn't. Which school would you send your kid to? Personally, for me it would not even be a question. I've been beat up enough in the grade school to not want to bring guns into picture :-). |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:33 pm |
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Site Admin Real Name: Steve Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 8701 Location: Renton, WA
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Re: 5 dead at Christian School Shooting in Oakland solyanik wrote: WRT school firearm ownership - let's say you have two schools you can chose to send your kid to. One allows any kid to bring guns to school (and in our mental experiment, kids are allowed to have handguns), the other doesn't. Which school would you send your kid to? Personally, for me it would not even be a question. I've been beat up enough in the grade school to not want to bring guns into picture :-). Solyanik, you avoided that question by going to a grade school scenario. No, I wouldn't want my kid going to a grade school where the kids carried guns, I agree with that . . . but that's not the issue here. The scenario in question is a college where people who are LEGALLY allowed to carry guns can do so on campus. Would you want your kid to go to a college that allowed legal carry, or a college that did not? Put a different way . . . if you go to a place that does not allow carry (let's say, a public school event), do you feel SAFER when you take your gun off and leave it in the car? Or would you feel safer if you were allowed to carry? (I'm assuming that you carry a gun, perhaps I'm wrong.) _________________ Steve Leave it cleaner than you found it. |
| Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:39 pm |
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