Ugh. Here I go over-analyzing and shit, and I need some help deciding..

I'm looking at heating an area approximately 120sq ft in WeenieWagun version whatever we're at now..

Roughly 1" of insulation all the way around for an R value of around 5. So, basically minimal insulation albeit with a vapor barrier.

Ideally, I'd have a wood burning stove, but they're not ideal for a mobile environment, and the stove would either be too small, and have to be refueled/stoked multiple times a night, OR so big that it'd burn me out. I've looked at pellet stoves but just don't seem to be built small/efficient enough, for the price. Pellets are dirt cheap though. But the smallest pellet stove I've seen runs over a grand, and even on its lowest setting might be too much.

For reference, in my 5 ton, with about the same sq footage, with virtually zero insulation, it was snowing, 30* out, and it was about 60* inside with my buddy heater on low (4K BTU).

Diesel and propane are very similar, in terms of $/BTUs...currently....

Diesel has 137,381 Btu, and is sitting ~$3.50/gal = .0000257659 per BTU
Propane has 91,452 Btu and is sitting ~$2.30/gal = .0000251498 per BTU


Diesel heater..~$150

Huge pro is 'dry heat'... It pulls in fresh air for combustion, and vents outside, while recirculating room air through the heating chamber/heat exchanger.

Something that's both pro and con is that it's diesel. I'll already have about a hundred gallons or more of it on hand when driving, BUT, that also means I'd be using my go juice for heat. Double edged sword, because in a situation where I'm low on fuel, I'd have to choose between heat, and driving....and that's not good, BUT, I'd have that choice.

Another con is power. The diesel heaters require power, and a blower. Usually only about an amp, but amps add up, and being that it's electronically controlled means it's pulling power, however slight, even when not on. It can't really be turned on/off frequently because the start up and shutdown procedure involves burning the glow plug for a while and draws about 10A during that procedure.. not something you wanna do a lot.

Pro is near perfect heat, with output from 2K btu up to about 16k btu, in the same unit.

Propane heater. ~$100-$400

There are a couple types, excluding forced air... Blue flame, which is an open flame style heater that heats the air, ceramic (buddy heater), or catalytic heaters which tend to heat objects more than the air.

Forced air is inefficient in every way and sucks.

Blue flame will heat up quickly but also less efficient, and can't really be used above 4500'.
Ceramic heaters like buddy heater have no thermostat, but require no power. I've found out the hard way that no adjustability can be a PITA, you either wake up freezing, or burning up..
Catalytic heaters tend to take longer to warm up but are more efficient and use little to no power, and some have thermostats, and no 4500' limitation, but also cost the most, some are $500+


Big bonus with propane heaters is they use no power, or in some cases with advanced features, almost no power.

HUGE downside about ALL propane heaters is.. MOISTURE... and LOTS of it. For every 1 gallon of propane you burn, you introduce about 1 gallon of water vapor into the air. So, if it's cold, and you have the heater on high (let's just say 8K BTU), in 12 hours, you've burned 96K BTUs, and burned a gallon of propane, and introduced AN ENTIRE GALLON OF WATER VAPOR into your space...

The biggest reasons I wanna go with diesel is because I'll already have a ton, and it's DRY heat.

The biggest reasons I don't want to go with diesel is because it can draw a lot of power, and I'd be trading go juice for heat.

The biggest reasons I wanna go with propane is because they're silent, and don't require any power.

The biggest reasons I don't want to go with propane is having lots of moisture added to the air, and having to carry a separate fuel source.



Fuck me.



Thoughts?!

I am not an expert, but… can’t you convert pretty much any oil or fat into diesel?

https://medicalspamd.com/the-blog/2009/ ... ction.html

I remember the man, a gunsmith from Olympic Peninsula, who told me once that he never bought a diesel for all his trucks and heaters, because he just collected used cooking oil from the local restaurants.
Yes, it requires some initial investment to buy/build the refining system, or whatever it is called, but after that your cost of diesel is close to zero.

As you already know, moisture is a huge issue in a small living space with minimal insulation. I would definitely do an RV style furnace, or the diesel heater. The electric load of the diesel really isn't much, and could easily be recouped with a little driving, plugging in, or a small solar system. The cheap $150 units usually come with its own fuel tank, so running out in the main tank doesn't have to be a concern.

Go with the diesel

Wouldn’t be a bad idea to keep the propane heater as a backup though

If propane were a better option you’d see truckers using it. I’ve never seen mention of it on the trucking forums though

The power issue could be solved with a bigger battery bank. My Truck has four large batteries. Can’t remember the group size. I can leave all the led marker lights, CB, and dash cam on all night and still crank in the morning. I’d assume you’re going to put in a bank of house batteries, that would protect the start batteries

Most of the diesel heaters consume very little diesel. The espar units I’ve seen on boats use around .05 gallons per hour. Roughly a gallon per day depending on the temps. If your worried about draining you main tank you could always add an auxiliary just for the heater

Agreed. While our boat has a Buddy propane heater, we rarely use it, in fact I think we've only used the heater twice since we've owned the boat. However, if we were going to be spending a lot more time on the boat, I'd look into the Espar or one similar. I've got two group 65 sized deep discharge batteries on the boat and my solar panel is able to keep them charged no sweat. This is a good thing since the power's been shut off on our dock for 1-1/2 years after the giant fire. That also means we can't run a cabin heater to keep the moisture down which sucks, but so far it hasn't been too bad.

As an aside, let me know if you need some 8D batteries. I have too many.... For you, no cost.

Those would work amazing.

I even have an analyzer/desulfator I can throw them on to bring them back up to snuff if they've been sitting a while.

I'd have to do something for you, can't really take them for free, lemme know how much beer/alcohol you want..

You can come get them Sunday if you like. Otherwise the 14th.

Yes, but more to that point, the deuce it's going on is multifuel. Gas, diesel, kerosene, vodka, pretty much anything it'll run on....

I intend on running blended fuel, waste motor oil, etc. which CANNOT feed the diesel heater because it'll get clogged too quickly. So, I would have to have a separate tank.

Cooking oil can NOT be mixed with waste motor oil. I don't want to get into all the chemistry but basically it congeals and will eff everything up REAL quick.

Long term, I wanted to have a centrifuge, but I'd probably have to start with a filter setup and polishing.

diesel for all sorts of reasons....

Very nice offer!

Power was probably my biggest concern, but with the extra juice offered by Laneends, this makes it a no-brainer. Diesel it is.

Also means I can push up my solar panel install since I'll actually have batteries to keep charged..

I lived in a travel trailer for a long time. I heated it three ways. I used a Toyotomi dual clean K1 heater but I had to have make up air. I had a propane RV furnace until the heat exchanger gave out and I could not weld it up any more and third I installed a propane heater in the bathroom since it was the bathroom plumbing that gave me the most problems concerning freeze up. That propane unit heated my 28 foot travel trailer most of the time only using the pilot flame. I bought it from Harbor Freight and it had a built in O2 sensor.

Just so you know companies do make wood or manual feed pellet stoves but the problem is feeding as it has to be done every 4 hours or so so the users set an alarm.

I absolutely love this forum. I have nothing else to contribute besides using a De'Longhi Mica Thermal panel to heat a 10x20ft partially insulated garage. Co-worker uses it to heat an uninsulated 10x15 "barn" to keep his freezers at the right temp.

Again, the generosity and conversations of this forum make it exceptional.

We have a Propex propane heater in our small camper. Works great. It's a furnace type but works great and doesn't introduce the moisture
Power use is very little too. We've run it overnight multiple days while using lights (led) and the tv without needing to charge (off two 6v batteries).

But for you...diesel all the way. Add a dedicated tank just for the heater. Then just have it plumbed where you could feed it off the main tanks if needed.