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It is currently Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:47 pm
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Plumbing frustrations - need suggestions
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PMB
In Memoriam
Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013 Posts: 12018
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leadcounsel wrote: Now, I am still annoyed at the builder for not installing what I perceive is an obvious item, a local shutoff valve for this VERY PREDICTABLE headache (or at least leaving information about the part number for the next owner - which I will do). I've considered installing a shutoff valve there... I'm weighing that option. That does require a lot more effort in cutting into the wall... I've never seen shut off valves on showers. I do like the idea though. Did you ask the manufacturer why there was no manufacturers mark on their product? I've noticed that many times and it has always irritated me too.
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:52 am |
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MadPick
Site Admin
Location: Renton, WA Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 Posts: 52039
Real Name: Steve
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PMB wrote: Did you ask the manufacturer why there was no manufacturers mark on their product? I think you missed the bit about the lifetime warranty.
_________________SteveBenefactor Life Member, National Rifle AssociationLife Member, Second Amendment FoundationPatriot & Life Member, Gun Owners of AmericaLife Member, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear ArmsLegal Action Supporter, Firearms Policy CoalitionMember, NAGR/NFGRPlease support the organizations that support all of us.Leave it cleaner than you found it.
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:53 am |
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leadcounsel
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Location: Can't say Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 8134
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PMB wrote: leadcounsel wrote: Now, I am still annoyed at the builder for not installing what I perceive is an obvious item, a local shutoff valve for this VERY PREDICTABLE headache (or at least leaving information about the part number for the next owner - which I will do). I've considered installing a shutoff valve there... I'm weighing that option. That does require a lot more effort in cutting into the wall... I've never seen shut off valves on showers. I do like the idea though. Did you ask the manufacturer why there was no manufacturers mark on their product? I've noticed that many times and it has always irritated me too. With the predictable difficulty of this process, I am boggled why it's not code to install a shutoff in the wall next to the junction. It is insane. The complexity, the likelihood of failure, the massive headache of finding and getting a replacement, and the obvious issue of non-compatibility of parts should all equal mandatory shutoff valves. The sink has one. The toilet has one. WTF doesn't the shower!? I didn't ask b/c it was nice phone reps that wouldn't have an answer and I didn't want to get into it.
_________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:04 am |
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Massivedesign
Site Admin
Location: Olympia, WA Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 Posts: 38308
Real Name: Dan
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If shut-off valves for mixing vales were code, then plumbing costs would go WAY UP. You would be required to install an access panel, which isn't always a doable thing in most bathrooms. So, your installation and piping costs would increase quite a bit to run a valve to an accessible location. You would also have, well, valves in walls. Concealed things that can drip, drip, drip for years, causing WAY more damage and frustration than just NOT having them at all.
Basically, everybody is going to need to turn off the water at some point to do some maintenance (like, annual draining of your hot water heater??). It happens. Do we complain when we have to kill power to the circuit to change an outlet (I know.. you don't HAVE to, but most do). Would your solution to then install a switch above every outlet?
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:57 pm |
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leadcounsel
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Location: Can't say Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 8134
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Massivedesign wrote: If shut-off valves for mixing vales were code, then plumbing costs would go WAY UP. You would be required to install an access panel, which isn't always a doable thing in most bathrooms. So, your installation and piping costs would increase quite a bit to run a valve to an accessible location. You would also have, well, valves in walls. Concealed things that can drip, drip, drip for years, causing WAY more damage and frustration than just NOT having them at all.
Basically, everybody is going to need to turn off the water at some point to do some maintenance (like, annual draining of your hot water heater??). It happens. Do we complain when we have to kill power to the circuit to change an outlet (I know.. you don't HAVE to, but most do). Would your solution to then install a switch above every outlet? Well, showers could easily be designed with a recessed area for a panel in mind. If there isn't a wall behind the shower piping. About 1/2 of houses I've lived in have a blank wall behind the shower piping so an access panel would be simple. I don't see this as difficult at all. Small panel with access to a lever to kill the water. Simple simple. And different than electricity in that to my knowledge, every light switch or wall outlet or light fixture is coded to be totally interchangeable. So if you have ANYTHING it will work. Plug and play idea. If I know I have a bad switch or outlet, I grab one from ANY hardware store on the way home from work, and then hit the fuse box for that room, swap out the part, and it's a 30 minute job. However, as demonstrated here, for a faucet fixture, it's a mult-day scavanger hunt on a non-ID'd part that is a special order. And you cannot isolate areas of the house to shut down water - and it's hard to function without water. With a fuse box, you can isolate and shut down 1 area of the house. Not the whole house. See the difference.
_________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:33 pm |
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PMB
In Memoriam
Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013 Posts: 12018
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I love the idea. An enclosed box with hot and cold valves even on the path to the shower would do the trick. Doesn't even have to be right next to it.
But this would be on a custom builder level, or an owner-builder. A spec house - no way. The amount of cutting corners on most houses can get into the crazy zone. New home purchasers are likely to never even notice that well thought out panel near the shower before signing for a 30 year mortgage.
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:45 pm |
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leadcounsel
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Location: Can't say Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 8134
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PMB wrote: I love the idea. An enclosed box with hot and cold valves even on the path to the shower would do the trick. Doesn't even have to be right next to it.
But this would be on a custom builder level, or an owner-builder. A spec house - no way. The amount of cutting corners on most houses can get into the crazy zone. New home purchasers are likely to never even notice that well thought out panel near the shower before signing for a 30 year mortgage. Sadly, this is part of the problem. Fake veneer nice looking stuff, that is of low quality or poor design. The nice shiny looking shower externals, are thin and weak plastic bits that failed in about 12 years of less than 1 use per day on average. That is absurd. It should last 20 years of multiple uses daily IMO, for such a difficult replacement task - i.e. overbuild this part b/c it's a hassle to fix/replace.
_________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:54 pm |
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BadKarma
Site Moderator
Location: Duvall Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 Posts: 8661
Real Name: Jaime
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I could put them easily under my house. Good idea.
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:56 pm |
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L_O_G
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Location: South Seattle Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 Posts: 13486
Real Name: JP
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I have been on a few side jobs with my brother helping him out with some plumbing jobs and its AMAZING how many corners people cut when doing flips.
What might seem nice and new on the surface, is often just a shiny turd.
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:56 pm |
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Pablo
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Location: Everson, WA Joined: Sun Jan 6, 2013 Posts: 28178
Real Name: Ace Winky
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Most True Values and some Ace's have quite a good array of mixing valve parts.
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Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:16 pm |
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jukk0u
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Location: Lynnwood and at large Joined: Wed May 1, 2013 Posts: 21268
Real Name: Vick Lagina
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Could have been worse... you could have put the outrigger to your boom-truck down and crushed the homeowner's water line from the meter....
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:19 pm |
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leadcounsel
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Location: Can't say Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 8134
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So, to support the shutoff valve should be required -
The part is unique. There is one in the entire state of Washington, 2 hours north in Bellingham. It's an $80 part. I have one being sent, and will arrive Tuesday, 4 days from now, or 5 days counting today.
Meanwhile, now I reinserted the old broken one so I could turn my house water back on. There's a steady drip, drip, drip, at a rate of 2 drips per second. Almost a steady stream.
My options are-
*Leave water on, hope it doesn't leak worse. *Make routine trips to the street to turn the water off/on as needed. How fun! Every time you want to use any water (laundry, shower, hygiene, dishes, cooking...) it's off to the street to turn on/off the water! *Wait 5 days for the free part, and hope it's correct. Figure out what to do if it won't fit. *Drive to Bellingham and back, pay for the part, which may be futile if it doesn't fit/work. Then have to return it.
Again, a water shut off locally would alleviate a lot of these headaches. But doing one now would be another all day project and unnecessary expense.
This must be a common issue. I cannot understand why nobody in the industry has addressed this.
_________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.
Last edited by leadcounsel on Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:19 pm |
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Sinus211
Site Moderator
Location: Marysville Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 Posts: 13503
Real Name: Mike
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jukk0u wrote: Could have been worse... you could have put the outrigger to your boom-truck down and crushed the homeowner's water line from the meter.... Did the kid have a rough day?
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:28 pm |
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goodtimes
Site Supporter
Location: Kent,wa Joined: Mon Apr 2, 2012 Posts: 261
Real Name: John
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leadcounsel wrote: So, to support the shutoff valve should be required -
The part is unique. There is one in the entire state of Washington, 2 hours north in Bellingham. It's an $80 part. I have one being sent, and will arrive Tuesday, 4 days from now, or 5 days counting today.
Meanwhile, now I reinserted the old broken one so I could turn my house water back on. There's a steady drip, drip, drip, at a rate of 2 drips per second. Almost a steady stream.
My options are-
*Leave water on, hope it doesn't leak worse. *Make routine trips to the street to turn the water off/on as needed. How fun! Every time you want to use any water (laundry, shower, hygiene, dishes, cooking...) it's off to the street to turn on/off the water! *Wait 5 days for the free part, and hope it's correct. Figure out what to do if it won't fit. *Drive to Bellingham and back, pay for the part, which may be futile if it doesn't fit/work. Then have to return it.
Again, a water shut off locally would alleviate a lot of these headaches. But doing one now would be another all day project and unnecessary expense.
This must be a common issue. I cannot understand why nobody in the industry has addressed this. Well you have posted your view on why it should have one and asked why it does not. Yet left out the option to go get some material and make it happen! The main reason it will never happen is money. Owners do not want to pay extras. Plumbers do not want home owners to be able to fix on there own, they love emergency money. I see it as more parts to cause problems, however when I remodeled the bath room made sure my fixtures were made soundly and parts easily available locally, and bought a extra mixing cartridge for good measure.
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:29 pm |
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PMB
In Memoriam
Joined: Wed Mar 6, 2013 Posts: 12018
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Sinks and toilets generally have flexible hoses between the hard piping inside the walls and the fixture. Showers are all hard piped. I can see that as a reason, but I still prefer LC's plan for the valve box.
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Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:34 pm |
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