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 Boerner Firearms in Gorst got hit last night. 
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Sinus211 wrote:
spaghetti monster wrote:
Sinus211 wrote:
leadcounsel wrote:
So, are all these gun stores just leaving cases filled with guns?

There's been some 10 gun stores burgled in the last 10 years. At what point do they not start putting them away at night in a safe or vault?

Should every car dealership that has a car stolen off the lot have to build a secure warehouse that they move all of the cars into at night then retrieve and redisplay their entire inventory every morning? Doesn’t that seem cost prohibitive in terms of building the warehouse and the labor to move the entire inventory twice a day? What about cars getting scratched by constantly moving them in and out of the warehouse?

Yeah because locking up guns in a safe 20 feet away and starting hundreds of cars and driving them to a warehouse every night is the same thing. Talk about false analogies.

And what would you compare it to? Moving an entire inventory to a vault every night without damaging the items then returning them in the morning would be a daunting task. Maybe possible for a small gun store but think about a place like DJ’s in Bothell. Hundreds and hundreds of guns to move, store, then move again the next morning. And try to imagine the kind of “safe 20 feet away,” as you called it, that would be required to carefully store an inventory of that magnitude.

It may not be the best comparison but I was attempting to illustrate how unrealistic an expectation that is. Maybe you can provide us with a better analogy?

I went to pick up a ring my wife had resized the other day. I got there about 15 minutes after it opened and only half of the cases were full. When I asked he said insurance requires them to lock it all up at night.


Wed May 01, 2019 9:31 pm
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spaghetti monster wrote:
Sinus211 wrote:
spaghetti monster wrote:
Sinus211 wrote:
leadcounsel wrote:
So, are all these gun stores just leaving cases filled with guns?

There's been some 10 gun stores burgled in the last 10 years. At what point do they not start putting them away at night in a safe or vault?

Should every car dealership that has a car stolen off the lot have to build a secure warehouse that they move all of the cars into at night then retrieve and redisplay their entire inventory every morning? Doesn’t that seem cost prohibitive in terms of building the warehouse and the labor to move the entire inventory twice a day? What about cars getting scratched by constantly moving them in and out of the warehouse?

Yeah because locking up guns in a safe 20 feet away and starting hundreds of cars and driving them to a warehouse every night is the same thing. Talk about false analogies.

And what would you compare it to? Moving an entire inventory to a vault every night without damaging the items then returning them in the morning would be a daunting task. Maybe possible for a small gun store but think about a place like DJ’s in Bothell. Hundreds and hundreds of guns to move, store, then move again the next morning. And try to imagine the kind of “safe 20 feet away,” as you called it, that would be required to carefully store an inventory of that magnitude.

It may not be the best comparison but I was attempting to illustrate how unrealistic an expectation that is. Maybe you can provide us with a better analogy?

I went to pick up a ring my wife had resized the other day. I got there about 15 minutes after it opened and only half of the cases were full. When I asked he said insurance requires them to lock it all up at night.

At Dj’s?

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Wed May 01, 2019 9:40 pm
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I like options that allow the Tools of Freedom to be made more secure in the same location as they are displayed... Like the acrylic or steel cases that unlock/ unfold or open during business hours...
Seems unrealistic to expect a business owner to get to work an hour or more early to move all ToF inventory from a safe to display every morning, then repeat the extra hour + after closing time every day.
20' or 5', handling every firearm in a moderately sized LGS 2x extra every day is unrealistic.
Make the store more secure or make the Tools of Freedom more secure without necessitating the very significant extra handling.

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Wed May 01, 2019 10:04 pm
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Sinus211 wrote:
spaghetti monster wrote:
Sinus211 wrote:
spaghetti monster wrote:
Sinus211 wrote:
leadcounsel wrote:
So, are all these gun stores just leaving cases filled with guns?

There's been some 10 gun stores burgled in the last 10 years. At what point do they not start putting them away at night in a safe or vault?

Should every car dealership that has a car stolen off the lot have to build a secure warehouse that they move all of the cars into at night then retrieve and redisplay their entire inventory every morning? Doesn’t that seem cost prohibitive in terms of building the warehouse and the labor to move the entire inventory twice a day? What about cars getting scratched by constantly moving them in and out of the warehouse?

Yeah because locking up guns in a safe 20 feet away and starting hundreds of cars and driving them to a warehouse every night is the same thing. Talk about false analogies.

And what would you compare it to? Moving an entire inventory to a vault every night without damaging the items then returning them in the morning would be a daunting task. Maybe possible for a small gun store but think about a place like DJ’s in Bothell. Hundreds and hundreds of guns to move, store, then move again the next morning. And try to imagine the kind of “safe 20 feet away,” as you called it, that would be required to carefully store an inventory of that magnitude.

It may not be the best comparison but I was attempting to illustrate how unrealistic an expectation that is. Maybe you can provide us with a better analogy?

I went to pick up a ring my wife had resized the other day. I got there about 15 minutes after it opened and only half of the cases were full. When I asked he said insurance requires them to lock it all up at night.

At Dj’s?

You asked what I would compare it too. I think a jewellery store locking up their valuables at night is closer to a gun store than a car dealership locking up cars in a warehouse every night.

But my comment of a "safe 20 feet away" was more directed towards a mom and pop shop that probably does have a safe not too far away and a huge firearm inventory. I agree a place like DJ's wouldn't be able or cost effective to lock them all up in a safe. But having a smash proof case and locking actions together could stop 100 guns from disappearing in 5 minutes. I am surprised insurance doesn't require that for gun stores.


Thu May 02, 2019 7:52 am
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You know, the "Blame the victim" mentality here is just weak. Boerners took all reasonable steps, and the cops were late by a minute. Shit happens.

All you Monday morning quarterbacks should open your own damn gun store before schooling the rest of us on hows its done.

Just Sayin'


Fri May 03, 2019 5:56 pm
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spaghetti monster wrote:
Sinus211 wrote:
spaghetti monster wrote:
Sinus211 wrote:
spaghetti monster wrote:
Sinus211 wrote:
leadcounsel wrote:
So, are all these gun stores just leaving cases filled with guns?

There's been some 10 gun stores burgled in the last 10 years. At what point do they not start putting them away at night in a safe or vault?

Should every car dealership that has a car stolen off the lot have to build a secure warehouse that they move all of the cars into at night then retrieve and redisplay their entire inventory every morning? Doesn’t that seem cost prohibitive in terms of building the warehouse and the labor to move the entire inventory twice a day? What about cars getting scratched by constantly moving them in and out of the warehouse?

Yeah because locking up guns in a safe 20 feet away and starting hundreds of cars and driving them to a warehouse every night is the same thing. Talk about false analogies.

And what would you compare it to? Moving an entire inventory to a vault every night without damaging the items then returning them in the morning would be a daunting task. Maybe possible for a small gun store but think about a place like DJ’s in Bothell. Hundreds and hundreds of guns to move, store, then move again the next morning. And try to imagine the kind of “safe 20 feet away,” as you called it, that would be required to carefully store an inventory of that magnitude.

It may not be the best comparison but I was attempting to illustrate how unrealistic an expectation that is. Maybe you can provide us with a better analogy?

I went to pick up a ring my wife had resized the other day. I got there about 15 minutes after it opened and only half of the cases were full. When I asked he said insurance requires them to lock it all up at night.

At Dj’s?

You asked what I would compare it too. I think a jewellery store locking up their valuables at night is closer to a gun store than a car dealership locking up cars in a warehouse every night.

But my comment of a "safe 20 feet away" was more directed towards a mom and pop shop that probably does have a safe not too far away and a huge firearm inventory. I agree a place like DJ's wouldn't be able or cost effective to lock them all up in a safe. But having a smash proof case and locking actions together could stop 100 guns from disappearing in 5 minutes. I am surprised insurance doesn't require that for gun stores.

I 100% agree about smash proof cases and other security measures and am also surprised insurance doesn’t require a higher level of security than most shops currently employ.

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Fri May 03, 2019 9:19 pm
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Ferryman wrote:
You know, the "Blame the victim" mentality here is just weak. Boerners took all reasonable steps, and the cops were late by a minute. Shit happens.

All you Monday morning quarterbacks should open your own damn gun store before schooling the rest of us on hows its done.

Just Sayin'


Maybe some here are....but most just want to help, believe it or not. Certainly not malicious in intent. You know as well there are layers of security that can be added in most all situations. Unlike this one, I go nuts with the crash and grab cases. Large bullocks or even jersey barriers would have stopped the car - not blaming the victim, but wow know your perimeter. One in some other state a few years ago was a Toyota compact......just sayin' :bigsmile:

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Sat May 04, 2019 4:03 am
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Pablo wrote:
Ferryman wrote:
You know, the "Blame the victim" mentality here is just weak. Boerners took all reasonable steps, and the cops were late by a minute. Shit happens.

All you Monday morning quarterbacks should open your own damn gun store before schooling the rest of us on hows its done.

Just Sayin'


Maybe some here are....but most just want to help, believe it or not. Certainly not malicious in intent. You know as well there are layers of security that can be added in most all situations. Unlike this one, I go nuts with the crash and grab cases. Large bullocks or even jersey barriers would have stopped the car - not blaming the victim, but wow know your perimeter. One in some other state a few years ago was a Toyota compact......just sayin' :bigsmile:

Large bullocks? Are you referring to testicles, or to bollards?


Sat May 04, 2019 7:30 am
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Arisaka wrote:
Pablo wrote:
Ferryman wrote:
You know, the "Blame the victim" mentality here is just weak. Boerners took all reasonable steps, and the cops were late by a minute. Shit happens.

All you Monday morning quarterbacks should open your own damn gun store before schooling the rest of us on hows its done.

Just Sayin'


Maybe some here are....but most just want to help, believe it or not. Certainly not malicious in intent. You know as well there are layers of security that can be added in most all situations. Unlike this one, I go nuts with the crash and grab cases. Large bullocks or even jersey barriers would have stopped the car - not blaming the victim, but wow know your perimeter. One in some other state a few years ago was a Toyota compact......just sayin' :bigsmile:

Large bullocks? Are you referring to testicles, or to bollards?


Both.

(just having some fun with the bollards threads) search.php?keywords=bollards&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

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Sat May 04, 2019 7:56 am
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Pablo wrote:
Ferryman wrote:
You know, the "Blame the victim" mentality here is just weak. Boerners took all reasonable steps, and the cops were late by a minute. Shit happens.

All you Monday morning quarterbacks should open your own damn gun store before schooling the rest of us on hows its done.

Just Sayin'


Maybe some here are....but most just want to help, believe it or not. Certainly not malicious in intent. You know as well there are layers of security that can be added in most all situations. Unlike this one, I go nuts with the crash and grab cases. Large bullocks or even jersey barriers would have stopped the car - not blaming the victim, but wow know your perimeter. One in some other state a few years ago was a Toyota compact......just sayin' :bigsmile:

+1
Discussing ways that FFLs can improve their security is not blaming FFLs in any way, from my point of view.
Just ideas and thoughts and suggestions.

Also, the definition of "all reasonable steps" sometimes evolves with time. These "crash and grab" crimes seem to be on the rise, so it makes sense for brick and mortar FFLs to consider ways to make this technique less likely to succeed.

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"There are violent crazy murderous people in our society! We need to give up all of our means of self-protection IMMEDIATELY!"


Sat May 04, 2019 7:57 am
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Well, I was in Boerner's on Thursday, they are rolling with the punches. Insurance is doing its thing, lots of people are pitching in for the reward money, and the cop's have at least two months of video records of everyone who walked through the store. The perps are doomed, just a matter of time.

More Importantly, they didn't get my new FAL!


Last edited by Ferryman on Sat May 04, 2019 7:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sat May 04, 2019 6:25 pm
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It seems like you could create a win-win, in a way, with security improvements...

Insurance usually gives discounts on enhanced security that meets certain criteria.

And if you made "security improvements", you could write it off on your taxes, as well as make cosmetic improvements in the process.

So, possibly reduce quarterly insurance premiums, and reduce end of year tax liability.

The challenge, though, is that, like restaurants, the margins are so slim, the idea of spending money to save money, is hard to consider. But if you can improve the security for when youre open, too, it's a good consideration. Especially when you add-in deductibles, loss of business, bad press, added labor, etc., ...


Sat May 04, 2019 7:07 pm
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Heard a blip on the news last night that they had arrested a 17yo in California in connection to this robbery. Also of interest was the indication that Local LEOs were recovering some of the stolen firearms as early as the next afternoon, the day of the robbery.

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Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:01 pm
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Chains wrote:
Heard a blip on the news last night that they had arrested a 17yo in California in connection to this robbery. Also of interest was the indication that Local LEOs were recovering some of the stolen firearms as early as the next afternoon, the day of the robbery.


One of them happened a month ago. How the hell did we miss it?

https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/20 ... 769836002/

Second one caught in Vegas.

https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/20 ... 527921001/

To bad nothing can be done to them if bodies start stacking up from these guns.

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Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:49 pm
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A family member of a victim could file a Wrongful Death lawsuit, just to prove a point and prevent them from ever owning ANYthing.

Shame that a civil lawsuit is the only way to actually get a wee bit of justice. Courts are so inept at taking serious criminals off the street. They should be guilty of the breaking and entering, theft, trafficking stolen firearms, illegal transfer of a firearm to presumably a prohibited person and complicity in what would presumably be a murder charge. These lame ass judges will let them plea down to a jaywalking ticket. :cussing: My sympathies to the poor LEO that is an unwilling participant in this revolving door BS.

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Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:55 pm
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