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martin248
Location: Issaquah Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 Posts: 1033
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RocketScott wrote: martin248 wrote: You do not have a right to harm others, and the moral reason why...
And that, my friends, is the difference between Americans and Canadians You cannot legislate morals. You can dictate them, which is probably what you're used to, but we don't do that here (god willing) If you would like legislated morals I suggest you go back to where you came from and stop trying to turn this place into that place Wrong. See Jacobson v Massachusetts, a decision of the UNITED STATES Supreme Court, and still the controlling case in this country. It is an incredibly well established principle in American law.
Last edited by martin248 on Wed May 05, 2021 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wed May 05, 2021 11:04 pm |
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RocketScott
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Location: Kentucky Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 Posts: 11088
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martin248 wrote: Refusal to be vaccinated is not a disability. People who have an actual disability that prevents them from being vaccinated are going to get an exception.
Even Jacobson v Massachusetts allowed for exceptions like that. Did you not read what I posted? I spoon fed it to you... Quote: Mental health issues such as anxiety about vaccination may lead to claims. In the case of Ruggiero v. Mount Nittany Medical Center...
_________________ You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for
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Wed May 05, 2021 11:04 pm |
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RocketScott
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Location: Kentucky Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 Posts: 11088
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Again, a case from 1905 Give me something more current
_________________ You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for
Last edited by RocketScott on Wed May 05, 2021 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wed May 05, 2021 11:06 pm |
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martin248
Location: Issaquah Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 Posts: 1033
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RocketScott wrote: martin248 wrote: Refusal to be vaccinated is not a disability. People who have an actual disability that prevents them from being vaccinated are going to get an exception.
Even Jacobson v Massachusetts allowed for exceptions like that. Did you not read what I posted? I spoon fed it to you... Quote: Mental health issues such as anxiety about vaccination may lead to claims. In the case of Ruggiero v. Mount Nittany Medical Center... Did your actually read that case? She had been diagnosed with severe anxiety long before this incident, and had a letter from a physician saying so. She didn't just claim to be nervous, she was being treated before the request to get vaccinated showed up, and her doctor wrote a letter that said so. I think you're wilfully blind. Yes if you get a letter from your physician saying that the vaccine is not recommended in your case you're going to get an exception. I think the employer overreach in that case was trying to second guess her doctor's medical opinion.
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Wed May 05, 2021 11:07 pm |
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RocketScott
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Location: Kentucky Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 Posts: 11088
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martin248 wrote: Did your actually read that case? She had been diagnosed with severe anxiety long before this incident, and had a letter from a physician saying so. She didn't just claim to be nervous, she was being treated before the request to get vaccinated showed up, and her doctor wrote a letter that said so.
I think you're wilfully blind.
Yes if you get a letter from your physician saying that the vaccine is not recommended in your case you're going to get an exception. That's not what you said a page ago: martin248 wrote: Just checked, "unvaccinated" doesn't seem to be listed as a protected class in the Civil Rights Act.
_________________ You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for
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Wed May 05, 2021 11:09 pm |
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martin248
Location: Issaquah Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 Posts: 1033
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RocketScott wrote: martin248 wrote: Did your actually read that case? She had been diagnosed with severe anxiety long before this incident, and had a letter from a physician saying so. She didn't just claim to be nervous, she was being treated before the request to get vaccinated showed up, and her doctor wrote a letter that said so.
I think you're wilfully blind.
Yes if you get a letter from your physician saying that the vaccine is not recommended in your case you're going to get an exception. That's not what you said a page ago: martin248 wrote: Just checked, "unvaccinated" doesn't seem to be listed as a protected class in the Civil Rights Act.
My statement is correct. She had a disability that prevented her from getting the vaccine and had a doctor's statement saying so. She did not simply refuse. Absolutely if you can persuade a physician to write a letter stating that vaccinating is not recommended in your case you get an exception. That's different than refusal.
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Wed May 05, 2021 11:16 pm |
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usrifle
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Location: RENTON Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 Posts: 20771
Real Name: John
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RocketScott wrote: martin248 wrote: Refusal to be vaccinated is not a disability. People who have an actual disability that prevents them from being vaccinated are going to get an exception.
Even Jacobson v Massachusetts allowed for exceptions like that. Did you not read what I posted? I spoon fed it to you... Quote: Mental health issues such as anxiety about vaccination may lead to claims. In the case of Ruggiero v. Mount Nittany Medical Center... RocketScott wrote: Again, a case from 1905 Give me something more current RocketScott wrote: martin248 wrote: Did your actually read that case? She had been diagnosed with severe anxiety long before this incident, and had a letter from a physician saying so. She didn't just claim to be nervous, she was being treated before the request to get vaccinated showed up, and her doctor wrote a letter that said so.
I think you're wilfully blind.
Yes if you get a letter from your physician saying that the vaccine is not recommended in your case you're going to get an exception. That's not what you said a page ago: martin248 wrote: Just checked, "unvaccinated" doesn't seem to be listed as a protected class in the Civil Rights Act.
Martin just got owned.
_________________ Mr. Q wrote: so basically, if you have to smoke some asshole, make sure they become fertilizer and then Bounce? got it.
Guntrader wrote: Huh, maybe I was an asshole.
NRA Member/RSO SAF 5 Year Donor GOA Member
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Wed May 05, 2021 11:20 pm |
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martin248
Location: Issaquah Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 Posts: 1033
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Nope. He cited an example of someone who had a doctor's letter, which a few pages back I already said gets an exception.
Jacobson v Massachusetts still controls. The principle that liberty can be limited when it results in harm to others is a fundamental American value well established in a zillion supreme court decisions.
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Wed May 05, 2021 11:24 pm |
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RocketScott
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Location: Kentucky Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 Posts: 11088
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Still...not...getting...it
I shudder to even get into religious exemptions
_________________ You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for
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Wed May 05, 2021 11:25 pm |
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RocketScott
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Location: Kentucky Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 Posts: 11088
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martin248 wrote: Jacobson v Massachusetts still controls Three Letters: A D A
_________________ You may be right, I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for
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Wed May 05, 2021 11:26 pm |
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martin248
Location: Issaquah Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 Posts: 1033
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RocketScott wrote: Still...not...getting...it
I shudder to even get into religious exemptions They would face the same test as religious exemptions from the draft. You would need to show it is a bona fide belief backed up by existing practice, or it won't fly. The grounds for these kinds of exceptions have been well established in cases relating to mandatory vaccines for kids in schools. They aren't just "nah didn't want to".
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Wed May 05, 2021 11:27 pm |
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NWGunner
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Location: South Seattle Joined: Thu May 2, 2013 Posts: 12475
Real Name: Steve
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usrifle wrote: Martin just got owned. And, he keeps going back and editing his arguments...
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Thu May 06, 2021 1:02 am |
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Wetpaperbag
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Location: olympia Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 Posts: 3784
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Thu May 06, 2021 6:20 am |
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martin248
Location: Issaquah Joined: Sun May 31, 2020 Posts: 1033
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Let's sum up where we are.
RS got American law wrong, I corrected him with the controlling ruling from the Supreme Court.
He claimed the notion that freedom is limited by harm to others is Canadian, I reminded him it was a United States Supreme Court ruling.
He claimed that the passage of the ADA changed everything, I pointed out that refusal isn't a disability.
He listed a case of a woman with a diagnosed medical condition getting an exception, I pointed out that means she has an actual disability and referred back to my original post that started this discussion where I noted the vaccine passport proposals all make exceptions with a doctor's letter.
He brought up religious exceptions and I pointed out there's a standard they have to meet as well.
I'm feeling pretty good.
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Thu May 06, 2021 7:04 am |
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Pablo
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Location: Everson, WA Joined: Sun Jan 6, 2013 Posts: 28178
Real Name: Ace Winky
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martin248 wrote: I'm feeling pretty good.
\ That IS the most important part for a conservative.
_________________ Why does the Penguin in Batman sound like a duck?
Because the eagle sounds like a hawk.
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Thu May 06, 2021 7:36 am |
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