The shooter's felonious possession of a weapon aside...

with the police being either ordered to not respond to property crimes (which can and do often escalate) or just giving up in frustration and not wasting their time and effort to respond, and with activist judges simply releasing those that are arrested... with the support of civic government...

there is no relief for victims of crime. Expect this to happen more often.

Absolutely agreed 100%. Hell...if it were me, (and remember I was homeless not that long ago, and living in my van) I would have just started that bitch up and gone on my merry way without wasting ammo. Bump-bumpity-bump. Oops, what on earth was that? As TechnoWeenie put it awhile back. (Pardon the paraphrase) When govt no longer respects the rights of it's citizens, what moral obligation do we have to trust in the "justice" of the system.

Aaaaaand... That is exactly what I have been thinking from the beginning of this thread. Just start the truck, and drive away. If the crook isn't fast enough to get away, so sorry, not sorry. If he is, he might learn a lesson.

But if you are going to intentionally kill the guy, just pop him in the head. THAT... Is what sometimes happens when someone decides to commit a crime, and someone else stops them. I know it's what I myself would be tempted to do...

Dragging him behind the truck... That is just sadistic. If you have those tendencies, you are not welcome at my table.

And I agree. Expect to see more of the above.

and my point, is the same to the FUDS that say you'll get arrested for using excessive force if you use a hollow point (and no, I'm not joking, I've had people argue that)... It doesn't matter if it's a bat, or a hand grenade. Lethal force is lethal force. If you're going to run him over, he's still dead... Doesn't matter if you hung him from a tree, or cut his arms and legs off and let him bleed out... it's all theater at that point... The end result is the same.

Let's say I have a claymore.. legally stamped... on my porch... 5 guys come up and start kicking on my door, obviously armed, saying they're gonna kill me... and I decide to set it off... killing all 5 men. Is it legal use of force? Is someone gonna argue 'man, that's overkill, you could have shot them, but setting off a MINE on them?!'.... Lethal force is either justified, or it's not. Morally and legally we can argue a difference, but the end result is the same.

Is it OK to hang a horse thief? If so, then why not OK to shoot one? Why not OK to stab one? Why not okay to strap to a railroad track, or strap a weight to their legs and bind their hands and feet and toss them overboard?

The end result is the same, it's the idea behind the manner in which they choose to execute their deed, that offends people.

Is it ok to shoot and eat a dog?

Ok, if it is, is it ok to skin it alive, and roast it while it screams?

What is the difference there? The latter is sadistic. Inhumane.

And while in your terms there is no difference... In my world, if you want to do the former, have at it. But if you want to do the latter, again, you are not welcome at my table.

A this point we don't know if/how the dragging contributed the the mans death

Sure didn't help, but I would bet the guy bled out from the gunshot wounds. We'll have to wait for the autopsy report

From what is sounds like the draggER used the dragEEs own truck. Quite possible that he needed to move that truck and the thief out of the way so he could escape

Two birds, one stone. I appreciate efficiency

Charge the man with evidence tampering and let it go at that. lol

Damn dude...how the hell did you even come up with that analogy? A dog cannot reason right from wrong. It doesn't take much stretch of the imagination that when a guy is so down on his luck as to be living in a car for years, that he may not be firing on all cylinders anyway. People have done far worse from a much better positions.

Dude could honestly think that 'rub some dirt in it' is legitimate medical advice

Going over and above shouldn't be a crime

Nope. It also should (but wont) be a deterrent to other shit bags

The situation here is more that you set off the claymore and while they are wounded and moaning in pain, and even in the mildest of circumstances put a bullet in their head to finish them off.

The threat is over, if you take it any further you are committing murder.

Was it the mildest of circumstances?

I don't think any of us really know

You moved the goalpost friend. If the original threat rated deadly force, than "the mildest circumstance", by nature....means they are still a threat, vis-a-vis deadly threat is still deadly threat. I vote that TW should get to have a minimum of 3 claymores in this scenario. The only difference between dead and "chunky style" is the position of the lid.

Wait.... Isn't that a mercy kill?

Legally speaking, you may be correct.

MORALLY speaking, anyone who goes to that length to attempt to kill a random stranger, in their home, only ceases to be a threat when they're dead. Nothing would really prevent them from doing it again, to me or someone else, even if they had to serve, say ,20 years in prison..

These are extreme examples, obviously.. and I don't think anyone, myself included, ever wants to be in that situation, but I won't fault him for how he reacted.

He defended his property, then attempted to hide the body by dragging it to a field. I don't find anything immoral about that. I know people that have enough property, and an excavator, that anyone trying to steal their stuff wouldn't be found again.. I don't see an issue with that, either.

In this case, dude had to have a sawzall, and I sure as hell ain't gonna let someone get in a position where they can use the sawzall against me. They'll get a warning to stop moving and if they keep moving, they're gonna get plugged.

The only thing questionable I see, and again, completely understandable and not immoral, is he tried to hide the body because he didn't wanna deal with the trouble. Bodies are heavy, dragging them is not fun... So he tied him to the truck and dragged him to a field.

cite him with 'failure to render aid' or 'evidence tampering' or some bullshit and let it go....