The US Forest Service is embarking on some big changes in the Greenwater area, and these change are NOT good for recreational shooting. We need your help.

This program is called the "Snoquera Project," and you can read all about it here.
More information is here.

Near the bottom of page 14 at the first link is this small paragraph:



Here is the Forest Service's plan, in a nutshell:

- Close the FSR 7013 clearcut to shooting.
- Potentially make enhancements to the FSR 70 gravel pit. The "enhancements" are the possible addition of a separate, short-range pistol shooting area.
- Find some new area, farther out in the wilderness, to use as a shooting area to replace FSR 7013.

On the surface, this might seem pretty reasonable. However, please note:

1) No matter how you do the math, this is a net loss of a very good shooting area.
2) The FSR 7013 clearcut is an EXCELLENT shooting area, for these reasons:
- It is very accessible, not too deep in the wilderness and close to the main road.
- It is extremely safe, since all shooting is done into the large, open hillside.
- It has been modified to have a clear firing line, directing fire in the proper direction.

The reason that they plan to close FSR 7013 to shooting is that the local residents have complained about it. Their complaints include:
- It's too noisy. In the Crystal River Ranch neighborhood they can hear gunfire, and they don't like that. To me, this is a simple NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) issue, and this complaint carries no merit. The National Forest is there for ALL citizens, not just local citizens, and it is protected for a variety of uses, not just shooting. Note that the village is approximately one mile from the shooting area, and behind a hill! Contrast this with more urban settings where houses are sometimes just a couple of hundred feet from local ranges, with no hill in between.
- It's dangerous. There have been reports of bullets landing in the Crystal River Ranch neighborhood, and the residents blame the FSR 7013 shooting area. This is pure bullshit; there is virtually NO way to get a bullet from FSR 7013 into the village unless you lob just the right caliber at just the right angle up into the sky. There are hills between the shooting area and the village, so a direct shot is impossible. I have literally done the math using known ballistic data, and like I say it's nearly impossible to hit the village from FSR 7013. Any bullets that have landed in the neighborhood have come from other areas, most likely from irresponsible shooters firing from hilltops.
- There is too much trash. This is actually true . . . there are some seriously irresponsible shooters that use FSR 7013, but these people use other areas as well. The trash issue isn't about FSR 7013, it's a general problem with outdoor shooting areas.
- It's dangerous, part 2. There have been reports of shooters firing the wrong way, back towards the FS 70 road. If this is true, then this needs to be addressed with signs or other methods. Again, this isn't an FSR 7013 issue, this is just an irresponsible shooter issue.

The Forest Service is asking for comments on this project between now and June 1st. Please help us by sending your feedback to the Forest Service at the link below:
https://cara.ecosystem-management.org/P ... ject=51969

You must provide your correct contact information in order for them to consider your comments.

Please encourage them to leave FSR 7013 open to shooting since it is an extremely safe shooting location, and point out to them that the rights of all of us to use this public space are far more important that the trivial noise complaints from neighbors. Thank you!

VERY IMPORTANT ! you must put down your correct contact information to be able to object to any actions that might be taken. In other words your comments won't be officially counted without your correct contact information.

Another excuse that is being used is fire danger. That somehow a fire at the clear cut will burn all the way up the hill and over hwy 410 to their community. We had a fire there about a two years ago in the heat of summer due to dumbassory and it didn't go anywhere due to the dirt. To counter this potential fire hazard ; there is proposed commercial tree thinning right at the shooting area. Combining this with a fire break can prevent any fire if the forest service keeps this area open.

Resource damage is another one as well. Yes a-holes shoot trees which is criminal but given the amount of use per resource damage; it's very small and also tree thinning in the area while talking about resource damage is … yeah you get the idea. To put in perspective; the norse peak fire last year caused more resource damage than target shooting will ever cause in that area and it actually threaten peoples homes.

Done.

Thanks ! did you put down your contact information ? If not your comment won't really count if they decide to take action.

Thank you, snozzberries! Excellent input.

I put down my full name, city, state, zip code. I didn't put my street address or phone number/email address. Aren't these comments public?

Responded as well.

Put down my full information.

Yeah I get what you're saying and yes it is public information. The verbiage is kind of gray for what constitutes "standing for administrative review" in other words your ability to object.

Done.

Thank you, guys!

Massivedesign, that is some awesome input.

Submitted my comment to encourage it remain open, and open more public lands.

That's what I forgot to do. Tell them to make more areas to shoot at. Create more pits. They should make 4 more, including one that goes out to 500 yards.

Done.
I gladly copied some of the texts already posted here. Extra thanks for providing some composition.

I'd like to strongly suggest this thread be stickied somewhere prominent so it stays in the forefront for a while. What'cha think?

Thanks for the comments people but we need more. I'm seeing a lot of support for closing this shooting spot from the locals.

If you don't know what to say you can combat the fire hazard excuse they're using. They keep bringing up the small fire from 2016 where someone caught a stump on fire that was not big at all as some threat to their community. What they fail to mention is that the fire department is right down the road from the 7013 area. If somehow a fire went over dirt and stumps and made it to the trees it could be contained very fast due to easy access to the area by firetruck and proximity. Also if there is ever a medical emergency; having the fire department so close makes it safer. seconds count on both these subjects but having a shooting spot further away is somehow safer...