I'm sticking with negligent homicide. Dude was having a medical issue, and couldn't aspirate normally. Once he was unconscious, he asphyxiated.
Complete conjecture, of course.
Cop wanted to play it cool and not react, but, in his defense, how many thousands of times has he heard someone say they can't breathe, just so they can get loose?
Asian dude didn't even look at the guy when he was down, he was just looking at the crowd.
Once he stopped moving, then yeah, that's a red flag.
I've also seen people on PCP act similarly before having cardiac issues, but again, complete conjecture.
They definitely fucked up, for sure, the question is, by how much? INaction is different that intentional action, IMO.
_________________ NO DISASSEMBLE!
Thomas Paine wrote:
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Wed May 27, 2020 5:29 pm
TechnoWeenie
Site Supporter
Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18453
Real Name: Johnny 5
LAPD detains citizens that are defending a store, unless the robbers flee, because the citizens are armed.
_________________ NO DISASSEMBLE!
Thomas Paine wrote:
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:34 am
rayjax82
Site Supporter
Location: Stanwood Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 Posts: 1920
Real Name: Chris
Absent any context, if you can speak the words, "I can't breathe" more than once, then you can breathe.
Exactly. His repeated "I can't breathe" statements mean nothing, in my opinion, and don't factor into what happened here.
That knee on the neck was over the same place grapplers are trained to apply pressure for a proper blood choke. I assure you, assuming you don't panic, we could carry on a full on conversation if I had you a decent rear naked choke. Right up until you passed out from lack of blood to the brain. I've actually seen it happen in class. Instructor demonstrating a choke, student slightly uncomfortable but responsive right up until they pass out and fall on their face.
I've also had that choke applied to me on more than one occasion. If you're not accustomed to you you'll likely panic. I did the first few times I was choked.
Difference here is that the officer applied a blood choke for nearly 10 minutes, and lack of blood to the brain can kill you. Which is what happened according to an independent autopsy. More just an FYI than anything else. Claiming he wasn't being choked because he could talk is false.
Difference here is that the officer applied a blood choke for nearly 10 minutes, and lack of blood to the brain can kill you. Which is what happened according to an independent autopsy. More just an FYI than anything else. Claiming he wasn't being choked because he could talk is false.
I've never heard of the term "blood choke" before. Your explanation seems reasonable to me, so I'll defer to your superior knowledge in these matters.
However, I never said that he wasn't choked, or that kneeling on his neck wasn't the proximate cause of his death. I said that repeatedly speaking the words, "I can't breathe" is prima facie evidence that you can in fact breathe.
_________________ Don't trust a man who claims he has no vises, especially if his name is Wilton.
Absent any context, if you can speak the words, "I can't breathe" more than once, then you can breathe.
Exactly. His repeated "I can't breathe" statements mean nothing, in my opinion, and don't factor into what happened here.
That knee on the neck was over the same place grapplers are trained to apply pressure for a proper blood choke. I assure you, assuming you don't panic, we could carry on a full on conversation if I had you a decent rear naked choke. Right up until you passed out from lack of blood to the brain. I've actually seen it happen in class. Instructor demonstrating a choke, student slightly uncomfortable but responsive right up until they pass out and fall on their face.
I've also had that choke applied to me on more than one occasion. If you're not accustomed to you you'll likely panic. I did the first few times I was choked.
Difference here is that the officer applied a blood choke for nearly 10 minutes, and lack of blood to the brain can kill you. Which is what happened according to an independent autopsy. More just an FYI than anything else. Claiming he wasn't being choked because he could talk is false.
People being arrested will claim the cant breath. My guess is they hope the officer may worry/second guess what they are doing and shift position. The officer should have known that what he was doing was blocking oxygen to the brain.
Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:22 pm
rayjax82
Site Supporter
Location: Stanwood Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 Posts: 1920
Real Name: Chris
I don't know if either applies in this case, just speculating based on personal experience. First few times I had a solid blood choke put on me it really did feel like I couldn't breathe due to me panicking. But once I was able to calm down I found that wasn't really the case.
Here's a BJJ instructor talking about the difference between air chokes and blood chokes.
Ranger deploys a TASER without warning, and his body camera magically malfunctions for nearly 30 seconds, just in time to show the Ranger on top of him, shooting him in his heart, killing him.
The Ranger says, the time the camera died is when the suspect attacked him. The deputy doesn't have any marks or injuries consistent with being hit in the head, as he claims.
Bull. Fucking. Shit.
Cameras don't just 'oops!' 30 seconds and keep recording.
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:38 pm
TechnoWeenie
Site Supporter
Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18453
Real Name: Johnny 5
Cop was running after a suspect who ended up getting on a bike. Cop had the smarts to ask a guy if he could borrow his bike, and he said yes. Kudos to the officer thinking on his pedals, and thanks to the guy for lending his bike. They got a murder suspect off the streets because the officer was able to follow and provide updates about the suspect's location.
_________________ NO DISASSEMBLE!
Thomas Paine wrote:
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:40 pm
TechnoWeenie
Site Supporter
Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18453
Real Name: Johnny 5
Cop arrests man for not wanting to talk to him. These are the cops that need to be removed from the force. He escalates the situation into a physical confrontation, illegal arrest, then charges the man with resisting the unlawful arrest, and tries to go for 'tampering with evidence' for helping the guy who wrecked his motorcycle. The officer tore the man's rotator cuff, requiring a full joint replacement, and none of the officers involved have been disciplined.
_________________ NO DISASSEMBLE!
Thomas Paine wrote:
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:54 pm
TechnoWeenie
Site Supporter
Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18453
Real Name: Johnny 5
Recognized the threat, responded quickly and accurately, and the radio work was awesome; immediately getting on the radio to advise what happened and their location.
_________________ NO DISASSEMBLE!
Thomas Paine wrote:
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:41 pm
TechnoWeenie
Site Supporter
Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18453
Real Name: Johnny 5
Cop is trespassing on property, blocking a private driveway. A Dr. drives up, and taps his horn at the cop. The officer jumps out of his car, points his gun at the driver, and demands he prove it's his property.
Instead of acknowledging he shouldn't be there, and just leaving, he has to try and fight. This is what happens when you train officers that they're never wrong, and have to not show any weakness.
Then another cop wants to come up and ask why he doesn't like cops. I dunno, maybe trespassing, blocking my driveway, then pulling a gun on me when I ask him to leave?
But that's not enough, officer dipshit wants to try and say he can cite the driver for careless driving, because he came in 'the wrong way'.. ignoring the entrance/exit marks, ON HIS PROPERTY that are not legally binding.
What.The.Fuck.
_________________ NO DISASSEMBLE!
Thomas Paine wrote:
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:55 pm
stevemcgee
Site Supporter
Joined: Wed Jul 8, 2020 Posts: 567
Real Name: Steve McGee
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum