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 Boeing is out 
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Arisaka wrote:
The IAM membership is conservative, but the union leadership has historically supported democrats, in return for their political support in legislation, and public relations support during labor negotiations and strikes. Pretty much every union has historically. supported democrats.

My point is they aren't mutually exclusive. You can work for a union and be against unions. Especially in a non right to work state where you either join the union or don't work for Boeing.


Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:01 pm
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usrifle wrote:
spaghetti monster wrote:
usrifle wrote:
You didn't add everything in the link I provided. The Union gave to some Republicans too.
Either way, I won't be quitting my high paying job to appease you. :wink05:

You posted a link that shows they give 98% of their federal contribution money to Dems and about 2% to Republicans. To steal from Joe Rogan... "If someone gave you a sandwich thats 98% shit and 2% ham are you willing to call that a ham sandwich"?

Also I never said you should quit a job, just being pro union and conservative seems at odds. Seems most conservatives that are pro union are the ones sucking on their teat.


The Union doesn't pay me, your anology sucks. :wink05:

Lol well if can't infer my point I will have to refer you back to Ace's post. :bigsmile:


Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:05 pm
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There are a whole lot of people who work at places like hat don't align with their Political views.
That doesn't make them brainless, clueless or even hypocritical. People have to make a living, right?

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Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:45 pm
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spaghetti monster wrote:
usrifle wrote:
You didn't add everything in the link I provided. The Union gave to some Republicans too.
Either way, I won't be quitting my high paying job to appease you. :wink05:

You posted a link that shows they give 98% of their federal contribution money to Dems and about 2% to Republicans. To steal from Joe Rogan... "If someone gave you a sandwich thats 98% shit and 2% ham are you willing to call that a ham sandwich"?

Also I never said you should quit a job, just being pro union and conservative seems at odds. Seems most conservatives that are pro union are the ones sucking on their teat.


Not necessarily. I am in general pro-union and conservative in nature. I believe that unions, as a whole, have improved the lives of the working class far more than anything the government can do. Private sector unions have shown themselves to be vital in preventing the kinds of worker abuse that was rampant during the robber baron era. This country would be a far different, probably less pleasant place without unions. I honestly believe that trade unions prevented a full blown socialist or communist uprising in this country.

At the same time there are plenty of criticisms of trade unions that are valid. Unions were vital in the early part of the 20th century but their importance has somewhat lessened with the advent of worker laws that prevent excessively long work schedules and some of the other abuses rampant 100 years ago. Corruption has tainted many of the larger unions with union dues being funnelled into organized crime schemes and sometimes just disappearing. Like any bureaucracy some unions are in place as much to maintain the union as they are to promote the rights of workers.

Probably more importantly, sometimes unions forget that their success is entirely dependent on how well a business does. Sometimes policies designed to protect workers are used to maintain positions for sub standard or outright worthless employees. I think most of us that have worked in union shops have 'that story' about how a complete waste of space is allowed to collect a paycheck even though everyone knows he or she should be fired. The confrontational nature of some unions make it very hard to innovate at times. Everyone remembers the absolute shit cars that were produced in the 70s and 80s by just about every US manufacturer. Well much of this was because the quality control efforts that car manufacturers and the standards that were wanted were nixed by UAW representatives. It wasn't the only reason but fit and finish were the responsibility of the line workers and they didn't give a shit and they weren't going to be held liable for a crappy final product. The rule 'don't buy a car built on Monday or Friday' was very true. It took the Japanese kicking the living crap out of us in quality and affordability before unions started to partner with manufacturers to make a better product.

So yes, you can be a conservative and be pro union. They have been an overall good but lets not fool ourselves that they don't sometimes overstep their importance and cause problems.

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Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:55 pm
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Boeing is an interesting study in the debate regarding pro-union vs anti-union. They have union workers in Everett who are paid more per hour than nonunion workers doing the exact same work, on the exact same model of aircraft (787) in South Carolina...
I would imagine somebody on this forum who works for Boeing is aware of how much it is...


Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:23 pm
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https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/06/boeing- ... ecade.html

Boeing slashes forecast for new aircraft demand, expects coronavirus pandemic to hurt sales for more than a decade.

Quote:
- Boeing slashed its 10-year forecast for new aircraft demand by 11% from a year ago.
- The manufacturer expects more than half of aircraft deliveries will be for fleet replacement, not growth.
- Boeing says air cargo is a bright spot while passenger travel falls.


Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:32 am
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A few days ago I caught something on the news from some self proclaimed "expert" that airline flights won't return to normal until 2024~2025!
WTF??????

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Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:51 am
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AR15L wrote:
A few days ago I caught something on the news from some self proclaimed "expert" that airline flights won't return to normal until 2024~2025!
WTF??????

That sounds about right to me.
People travel less due to meaningless draconian restrictions.
Less business trips, less out-of-state trainings, seminars, trade shows, etc.
Pretty much everything is online now. Zoom rules.
Welcome to the "new normal"!


Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:57 am
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I would have loved zoom vs flying when I was working. I spent months per year on the road, and hated most of it.


Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:31 am
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AR15L wrote:
A few days ago I caught something on the news from some self proclaimed "expert" that airline flights won't return to normal until 2024~2025!
WTF??????



The same as after 9/11, it was rough to be a machinist in that era, and it's a lot worse now.

From my standpoint, the manufacturing world in the NW will suffer irreparably if boeing leaves, because they have their hands in a lot of the trade schools(ajac comes to mind). I'm not aerospace, but i know i'll feel it


Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:19 pm
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Fungunnin wrote:
I think Jay is a bit confused about how business works ....
Image

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk


Boeing to Jay: Go pound sand.


Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:20 pm
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Arisaka wrote:
usrifle wrote:
I can attest that the majority of IAM Members I know are conservative, and far from "Brainless"

This is true. I’m spent over 30 years at Boeing. The IAM people I worked with were largely conservative, often gun owners, and very rarely pussies. Loved working with them!

HR on the other hand......



My old man was IAM for close to 38 years, I know a lot of IAM members, I remember every strike in our household my dad picketed at. And yeah a there's a bunch I know that would rather die than support any commie. But if everyone who worked for Boeing voted republican, then why isn't Snohomish county a red county? Why do we have Kim Jong Inslee as our glorious leader? I stand by my words, if your leadership endorses Inslee and you don't vote those union reps out then how can I not say Brainless IAM members?

I just want to be clear, I support Unions, good ones, but part of the decline of Unions isn't about companies cutting costs, its about the union leadership forgetting who they are fighting for, The workers and not the Socialists who pretend to be their friends until after election day.


Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:16 pm
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Boeing suppliers in the area will be fine in the long run. Most suppliers aren't delivering directly to boeing anyway so them moving means jack shit to the suppliers in the area. Boeing already has a global supply chain setup so the only thing that changes is the delivery address.

My company pivoted to airbus, military and space until commercial comes back.

I know a lot of people that lost jobs due to the 737 max debacle and then covid. Which is very unfortunate. But saying manufacturing is dead in WA is hyberbole to the max.


Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:18 pm
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rayjax82 wrote:
Boeing suppliers in the area will be fine in the long run.



Most of them werent fine before this... From where you are, at all the senior shops. Like AMT(arlington) or Absolute both in arlington were a ghost town. We've nabbed guys from both recently. Also Damar in monroe is in death-throws too, the boeing truck still stops by but the parking lot a dead.

I dont see any of the senior brands recovering, mabey they can consolidate, but most of it is dead


Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:26 pm
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shaggy wrote:
rayjax82 wrote:
Boeing suppliers in the area will be fine in the long run.



Most of them werent fine before this... From where you are, at all the senior shops. Like AMT(arlington) or Absolute both in arlington were a ghost town. We've nabbed guys from both recently. Also Damar in monroe is in death-throws too, the boeing truck still stops by but the parking lot a dead.

I dont see any of the senior brands recovering, mabey they can consolidate, but most of it is dead


That was the result of Seniors absolutely shit decision making, not necessarily the state of the industry. AMT brought in the old GM from Tect who also ran that company into the ground. AFAIK Absolute was sold to seacast, but I could be wrong. Last I heard senior was selling their aerostructures division. There's a lot of potential with the equipment they have, someone will pick them up.

Same story with avtech tyee. Poor management damaged that company. The vp of ops there had zero manufacturing experience before she showed up there and took a manufacturing manager role.

There's like 400 some odd machine shops in the north end. Think north king county to bellingham. Most should be fine. The bigger ones that are failing will get scooped up.

I'm at Onamac and we picked up a few of those AMT guys too. Where are you at?


Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:47 am
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