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It is currently Wed Apr 24, 2024 3:57 pm
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Ashli Babbit's Murderers identity partly exposed
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Alpine
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Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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TechnoWeenie wrote: MadPick wrote: Alpine wrote: Of course the dipshit softball interview.... Agreed, the interview was total shit. I watched it "live" on the nightly news, and said the same thing to my gf. They made a point right up front to say that Ashli was a Trump supporter and a QAnon follower, and then they one-by-one brought up all of the topics that he wanted to explain away. Now with that said . . . I still believe that we would all proclaim it a "good shoot" in any other circumstance, and I think that it was. If situation was reversed, and it was antifa and I was the officer, I probably would have shot as well. Definitely sent a message that no one was making it past that door. I think the issue is, instead of 'this sucks, it was a shit situation, but we made the best call we could at the time', it has turned into 'he's a hero in the fight against the evil Trump supporters'... That's BS. TechnoWeenie wrote: Alpine wrote: Belongs in the civil war thread. In all seriousness, if they go for this, that may well be the spark. Turn me into a fucking criminal. I fucking dare you. ...
_________________If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:51 am |
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catbird
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Location: C@L Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 Posts: 338
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Derek Chauvin: Convicted Murderer Michael Byrd: Investigated by his own department, not charged, won't stand trial
_________________ Don't trust a man who claims he has no vises, especially if his name is Wilton.
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:04 am |
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TechnoWeenie
Site Supporter
Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18473
Real Name: Johnny 5
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Alpine wrote: TechnoWeenie wrote: MadPick wrote: Alpine wrote: Of course the dipshit softball interview.... Agreed, the interview was total shit. I watched it "live" on the nightly news, and said the same thing to my gf. They made a point right up front to say that Ashli was a Trump supporter and a QAnon follower, and then they one-by-one brought up all of the topics that he wanted to explain away. Now with that said . . . I still believe that we would all proclaim it a "good shoot" in any other circumstance, and I think that it was. If situation was reversed, and it was antifa and I was the officer, I probably would have shot as well. Definitely sent a message that no one was making it past that door. I think the issue is, instead of 'this sucks, it was a shit situation, but we made the best call we could at the time', it has turned into 'he's a hero in the fight against the evil Trump supporters'... That's BS. TechnoWeenie wrote: Alpine wrote: Belongs in the civil war thread. In all seriousness, if they go for this, that may well be the spark. Turn me into a fucking criminal. I fucking dare you. ... Not sure how that's related? I can imagine myself in a situation, and judge how I would likely react. I judge myself on morality, not legality. Those two statements are not incongruent, in any way. In my perception, would I be defending myself/others from a seemingly violent mob that was making entry into my space? Would they be posing a threat? A man is crawling into your house after busting the window on your door, what do you do?
_________________NO DISASSEMBLE!Thomas Paine wrote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:05 am |
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Alpine
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Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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What I will do and what we need to do is remove from power the people criminalizing us defending ourselves, standing up for ourselves and creating a two-tiered legal system that is literally killing us, while letting their preferred groups wreck all the chaos, havoc and violence on society they want without any legal consequences.
At some point this needs to end. Let's hope we can do it peacefully via the ballot box.
_________________If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:25 am |
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TechnoWeenie
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Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18473
Real Name: Johnny 5
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Alpine wrote: What I will do and what we need to do is remove from power the people criminalizing us defending ourselves, standing up for ourselves and creating a two-tiered legal system that is literally killing us, while letting their preferred groups wreck all the chaos, havoc and violence on society they want without any legal consequences.
At some point this needs to end. Let's hope we can do it peacefully via the ballot box. I agree. But also understand there's nuance in a situation, and even someone you don't like or disagree with 100% politically, can be morally right, or deserve benefit of the doubt in a fucky situation. The key to being objective is to view things from all sides, not just yours. I put myself in that position and question what I would do. I've stated numerous times that if I was, for example, downtown at Macy's, and Antifa pulled their shit they were doing like running pikes through windows, and trying to crawl through the hole, I would not allow them to make entry, due to their obvious violent intent. I see this in the same context. Person defending himself and others, 'violent' mob busting out windows/doors trying to get in. Perception is reality.
_________________NO DISASSEMBLE!Thomas Paine wrote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:43 am |
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SurfPerch
Location: Wetside Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 Posts: 960
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TechnoWeenie wrote: I judge myself on morality, not legality. ... In my perception, would I be defending myself/others from a seemingly violent mob that was making entry into my space? Would they be posing a threat? A man is crawling into your house after busting the window on your door, what do you do? Law doesn't care how you judge yourself. Everybody has its own bugs in the head. Hope you're not a LEO in real life. You're just repeating antifa's position that allowed themselves openly criminal behavior because it was "morally" justified to fight "fascists", "white supremasicists", etc. And from the point of view of the law this was NOT a situation where somebody trespasses into your "place of abode" under "castle doctrine". And the "castle doctrine" is the only EXCEPTION allowing you to use a deadly force against simple trespass and infer a violent intent and threat to your life from the trespass. (And, btw, in DC even if it was your "place of abode" they do not have a "castle doctrine" providing you with this exception.)
_________________ “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”
― Ronald Reagan Oct. 27, 1964
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:51 am |
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Pvanderzee
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Location: Bow Joined: Tue Apr 2, 2013 Posts: 2688
Real Name: Phill
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TechnoWeenie wrote: Alpine wrote: What I will do and what we need to do is remove from power the people criminalizing us defending ourselves, standing up for ourselves and creating a two-tiered legal system that is literally killing us, while letting their preferred groups wreck all the chaos, havoc and violence on society they want without any legal consequences.
At some point this needs to end. Let's hope we can do it peacefully via the ballot box. I agree. But also understand there's nuance in a situation, and even someone you don't like or disagree with 100% politically, can be morally right, or deserve benefit of the doubt in a fucky situation. The key to being objective is to view things from all sides, not just yours. I put myself in that position and question what I would do. I've stated numerous times that if I was, for example, downtown at Macy's, and Antifa pulled their shit they were doing like running pikes through windows, and trying to crawl through the hole, I would not allow them to make entry, due to their obvious violent intent. I see this in the same context. Person defending himself and others, 'violent' mob busting out windows/doors trying to get in. Perception is reality. And remember, it doesn't matter if the mob outside is actually being violent or not. What matters is what a reasonable person in that situation would do with the knowledge they had at the time. If that reasonable person is under the impression that there is a violent mob attempting to force entry, well, that counts for something.
_________________Sinus211 wrote: Z66 and I still fuck on the regular. zombie66 wrote: Mikey is a Bossy Bottom.....
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:56 am |
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TechnoWeenie
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Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18473
Real Name: Johnny 5
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Pvanderzee wrote: TechnoWeenie wrote: Alpine wrote: What I will do and what we need to do is remove from power the people criminalizing us defending ourselves, standing up for ourselves and creating a two-tiered legal system that is literally killing us, while letting their preferred groups wreck all the chaos, havoc and violence on society they want without any legal consequences.
At some point this needs to end. Let's hope we can do it peacefully via the ballot box. I agree. But also understand there's nuance in a situation, and even someone you don't like or disagree with 100% politically, can be morally right, or deserve benefit of the doubt in a fucky situation. The key to being objective is to view things from all sides, not just yours. I put myself in that position and question what I would do. I've stated numerous times that if I was, for example, downtown at Macy's, and Antifa pulled their shit they were doing like running pikes through windows, and trying to crawl through the hole, I would not allow them to make entry, due to their obvious violent intent. I see this in the same context. Person defending himself and others, 'violent' mob busting out windows/doors trying to get in. Perception is reality. And remember, it doesn't matter if the mob outside is actually being violent or not. What matters is what a reasonable person in that situation would do with the knowledge they had at the time. If that reasonable person is under the impression that there is a violent mob attempting to force entry, well, that counts for something. Which is why, although I think it's a shit situation and wished it ended without a lethal use of force, I understand why he shot, and probably would have done the same thing if I was in that situation, as I've explained I would in similar situations.
_________________NO DISASSEMBLE!Thomas Paine wrote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:16 am |
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TechnoWeenie
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Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18473
Real Name: Johnny 5
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SurfPerch wrote: TechnoWeenie wrote: I judge myself on morality, not legality. ... In my perception, would I be defending myself/others from a seemingly violent mob that was making entry into my space? Would they be posing a threat? A man is crawling into your house after busting the window on your door, what do you do? Law doesn't care how you judge yourself. Everybody has its own bugs in the head. Hope you're not a LEO in real life. You're just repeating antifa's position that allowed themselves openly criminal behavior because it was "morally" justified to fight "fascists", "white supremasicists", etc. And from the point of view of the law this was NOT a situation where somebody trespasses into your "place of abode" under "castle doctrine". And the "castle doctrine" is the only EXCEPTION allowing you to use a deadly force against simple trespass and infer a violent intent and threat to your life from the trespass. (And, btw, in DC even if it was your "place of abode" they do not have a "castle doctrine" providing you with this exception.) Today's freedom fighter is tomorrow's terrorist. The Boston tea party was carried out by 'terrorists'... The revolution was fought by 'traitors'..... Of course Antifa thinks they're morally superior..... Just like ISIS, and Timothy Mcveigh....and George Washington... and... you get the idea...
_________________NO DISASSEMBLE!Thomas Paine wrote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:20 am |
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Alpine
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Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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I guess the lesson here is win or die. How sad for our society. I wonder how many would have called the Boston massacre a "good shoot" if they lived at the time instead of looking back now.
_________________If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:15 am |
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TechnoWeenie
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Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18473
Real Name: Johnny 5
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Alpine wrote: I guess the lesson here is win or die. Ultimately, yes. Quote: How sad for our society. I wonder how many would have called the Boston massacre a "good shoot" if they lived at the time instead of looking back now. Depends on your definition of tyranny, and where your moral compass aligns. I've seen plenty of posts talking about how cops should beat the shit out of/shoot antifa rioters... If you recall, the Boston Massacre involved people throwing rocks and the like.. So, if you're seeing the British as an occupying force and tyrannical, then it's excessive. If you view them as peace keepers putting down a riot/'insurrection', then you'd probably support them.
_________________NO DISASSEMBLE!Thomas Paine wrote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:07 pm |
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SurfPerch
Location: Wetside Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 Posts: 960
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Pvanderzee wrote: And remember, it doesn't matter if the mob outside is actually being violent or not. What matters is what a reasonable person in that situation would do with the knowledge they had at the time... No, it doesn't matter "what a reasonable person in that situation would do". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicideQuote: The key to this legal defense is that it was reasonable for the subject to believe that there was an imminent and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent by the deceased when they committed the homicide. A homicide in this instance is blameless.[[/b] Remove any component from this and you're a murderer. Byrd is the only idiot on the force with a habit to hold his twitchy finger on a trigger in the whole Jan 6 riots who believed that. How is this "reasonable"? Only trial could "exonerate" him.
_________________ “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”
― Ronald Reagan Oct. 27, 1964
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:42 pm |
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TechnoWeenie
Site Supporter
Location: Nova Laboratories Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 Posts: 18473
Real Name: Johnny 5
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SurfPerch wrote: Pvanderzee wrote: And remember, it doesn't matter if the mob outside is actually being violent or not. What matters is what a reasonable person in that situation would do with the knowledge they had at the time... No, it doesn't matter "what a reasonable person in that situation would do". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicideQuote: The key to this legal defense is that it was reasonable for the subject to believe that there was an imminent and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent by the deceased when they committed the homicide. A homicide in this instance is blameless.[[/b] Remove any component from this and you're a murderer. Byrd is the only idiot on the force with a habit to hold his twitchy finger on a trigger in the whole Jan 6 riots who believed that. How is this "reasonable"? Only trial could "exonerate" him. A trial by jury would seem appropriate.
_________________NO DISASSEMBLE!Thomas Paine wrote: "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:57 pm |
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SurfPerch
Location: Wetside Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 Posts: 960
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TechnoWeenie wrote: Today's freedom fighter is tomorrow's terrorist.
The Boston tea party was carried out by 'terrorists'... The revolution was fought by 'traitors'.....
Of course Antifa thinks they're morally superior..... Just like ISIS, and Timothy Mcveigh....and George Washington... and... you get the idea... Not sure what this sentiment has to do with Ashli's murder. My point is about whether execution of a trespassing political protester by gov-t police officer was legally excusable. Whether one sees her as a freedom fighter or a terrorist , or "traitor" shouldn't matter in this case. What matters to me is 1A and the law.
_________________ “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”
― Ronald Reagan Oct. 27, 1964
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:00 pm |
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SurfPerch
Location: Wetside Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 Posts: 960
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TechnoWeenie wrote: A trial by jury would seem appropriate.
Here we're in a full agreement. Instead we got unprecedented measures to deny any prosecution effort and keeping even a killer's identity "secret" since Jan... People who were burning cities screaming "say her name" - suddenly sneering "she deserved it as terrorist she was" and welcoming internal police investigation. Alternate universe... So moreover - I see the gov-t explicitly complicit in her murder by denying justice for her and her family.
_________________ “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”
― Ronald Reagan Oct. 27, 1964
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Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:05 pm |
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