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 Russia-Ukraine War 
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hkhnm wrote:
TechnoWeenie wrote:
The solution is simple.

If a portion of a country wants to secede, hold a vote.


I heard that armed Russian soldiers are going house to house getting people to fill out their ballots so that everyone gets a chance to vote yes, including the pro Ukrainians.


Election workers, accompanied by soldiers, are going door to door. This is done so people dont gather in large numbers on the streets in front of polling places and getting shelled by the Ukraininans, like they have been doing for the past 8 years.
Nobody is forcing anyone to vote, one way or another.


Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:36 pm
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Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:22 pm
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esbshaw wrote:
I think you guys misunderstood my post. I admire Tucker Carlson very much. He is a VERY successful entertainer. He came up with a gimmick, just like Jerry Lewis, just like Don Knotts, just like any successful entertainer. He defined his audience, and he plays to that audience. Very successfully. He tells them exactly what they want to hear, and does it full on, every day. White is black, up is down, wet is dry, doesn't matter. As long as that's what his target audience wants to hear, that's what he'll say, and they love him for it; and he does it very, very well. He makes a hell of a lot of money doing it. Rest assured, if the majority of Americans loved Putin, Tucker Carlson would hate his guts. That's just his thing. Can't fault the guy for that, it's how he makes his money. Mind you, I don't think his anti-american pro-Putin rhetoric is at all helpful or adds any value to anything, but he certainly seems to be good at selling it to somebody! So yes, in spite of that, I say: Tucker Carlson - a hardworking entertainer, just out to make a buck the best way he knows how to. And doing a damn fine job of it too. He came up with a formula and it certainly seems to be working for him.


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Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:04 pm
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movingviolation wrote:
hkhnm wrote:
TechnoWeenie wrote:
The solution is simple.

If a portion of a country wants to secede, hold a vote.


I heard that armed Russian soldiers are going house to house getting people to fill out their ballots so that everyone gets a chance to vote yes, including the pro Ukrainians.


Election workers, accompanied by soldiers, are going door to door. This is done so people dont gather in large numbers on the streets in front of polling places and getting shelled by the Ukrainians, like they have been doing for the past 8 years.
Nobody is forcing anyone to vote, one way or another.


Apparently participating in any vote concerning Ukrainian territorial integrity (these referenda to join Russia) is being viewed as violation of constitutional prohibitions. 5 years in the hoose-gau

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... mpaign=938

"Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Irina Vereshchuk announced this week that a five year prison term is currently being considered for anyone caught participating in "sham referenda" by government authorities:

"Some lawyers believe that those actions fall under Article 110 part 1 of the Criminal Code of Ukraine, ‘Infringement on Ukraine’s territorial integrity,’ punishable with a prison term of up to five years," she told the Strana portal on Tuesday."

But the referenda vote(s) is taking place in Russian controlled areas, so...

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Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:40 pm
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movingviolation wrote:
hkhnm wrote:
TechnoWeenie wrote:
The solution is simple.

If a portion of a country wants to secede, hold a vote.


I heard that armed Russian soldiers are going house to house getting people to fill out their ballots so that everyone gets a chance to vote yes, including the pro Ukrainians.


Election workers, accompanied by soldiers, are going door to door. This is done so people dont gather in large numbers on the streets in front of polling places and getting shelled by the Ukraininans, like they have been doing for the past 8 years.
Nobody is forcing anyone to vote, one way or another.


Do you really believe that this is a fair election? I have a hard time believing any anti Russian voter is going to hand over a "no" ballot to Russian affiliated election workers accompanied by Russian soldiers. Sounds like a way to get put on a list you really don't want to be on.


Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:05 pm
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esbshaw wrote:
I think you guys misunderstood my post. I admire Tucker Carlson very much. He is a VERY successful entertainer. He came up with a gimmick, just like Jerry Lewis, just like Don Knotts, just like any successful entertainer. He defined his audience, and he plays to that audience. Very successfully. He tells them exactly what they want to hear, and does it full on, every day. White is black, up is down, wet is dry, doesn't matter. As long as that's what his target audience wants to hear, that's what he'll say, and they love him for it; and he does it very, very well. He makes a hell of a lot of money doing it. Rest assured, if the majority of Americans loved Putin, Tucker Carlson would hate his guts. That's just his thing. Can't fault the guy for that, it's how he makes his money. Mind you, I don't think his anti-american pro-Putin rhetoric is at all helpful or adds any value to anything, but he certainly seems to be good at selling it to somebody! So yes, in spite of that, I say: Tucker Carlson - a hardworking entertainer, just out to make a buck the best way he knows how to. And doing a damn fine job of it too. He came up with a formula and it certainly seems to be working for him.


I agree with your assessment, as for most of the talking heads on tv. I guess the difference between a grifter and an entertainer is how successful a brand you build for yourself, and he is good at that. I wish he had some moral anchoring, even if its something I don't agree with.


Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:32 pm
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jukk0u wrote:
movingviolation wrote:
hkhnm wrote:
TechnoWeenie wrote:
The solution is simple.

If a portion of a country wants to secede, hold a vote.


I heard that armed Russian soldiers are going house to house getting people to fill out their ballots so that everyone gets a chance to vote yes, including the pro Ukrainians.


Election workers, accompanied by soldiers, are going door to door. This is done so people dont gather in large numbers on the streets in front of polling places and getting shelled by the Ukrainians, like they have been doing for the past 8 years.
Nobody is forcing anyone to vote, one way or another.


Apparently participating in any vote concerning Ukrainian territorial integrity (these referenda to join Russia) is being viewed as violation of constitutional prohibitions. 5 years in the hoose-gau

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... mpaign=938

"Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Irina Vereshchuk announced this week that a five year prison term is currently being considered for anyone caught participating in "sham referenda" by government authorities:

"Some lawyers believe that those actions fall under Article 110 part 1 of the Criminal Code of Ukraine, ‘Infringement on Ukraine’s territorial integrity,’ punishable with a prison term of up to five years," she told the Strana portal on Tuesday."

But the referenda vote(s) is taking place in Russian controlled areas, so...


..and that's where the bullshit begins.

If people want out, let them vote.

Both Russia and Ukraine have a hand to play in this. This isn't just a one-sided thing. That's what pisses me off. You start pointing out shit on both sides and all the sudden EVERYONE hates you because they think you're cheering for the other team.

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Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:48 pm
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I don't think it is reasonable to expect honest elections
from either side. Hell, we don't have them here.

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Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:05 pm
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Didn't Zelinski have the opposition party's heads arrested at the outset of the war?

That's one way to keep winning elections.

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“Finding ‘common ground’ with the thinking of evil men is a fool’s errand” ~ Herschel Smith

"The said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." ~ Samuel Adams

“A return to First Principles in a Republic is sometimes caused by simple virtues of a single man. His good example has such an influence that the good men strive to imitate him, and the wicked are ashamed to lead a life so contrary to his example. Before all else, be armed!” ~ Niccolo Machiavelli

Láodòng zhèng zhūwèi zìyóu

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Fri Sep 23, 2022 10:27 pm
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corpsman wrote:
I don't think it is reasonable to expect honest elections
from either side. Hell, we don't have them here.


This. If the Ukrainians retake Kherson do they just hold another "vote" with Ukrainian election workers going house to house along with armed Ukrainian military? Are the Russophiles going to accept that? I can't see any vote being meaningful in a war zone.

It does look like Putin is painting himself into a corner. His troops in Kherson are a little bit isolated on the wrong side of the river and the bridges are out.

If they end up having to retreat back across across the Dnieper it seems likely that river will then form a pretty static line between the two armies, and that SHOULD result in peace talks around making that line permanent.

But having made all of Kherson "Russia" could he really afford to cede it, politically?


Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:27 pm
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chuckisduck wrote:
esbshaw wrote:
I think you guys misunderstood my post. I admire Tucker Carlson very much. He is a VERY successful entertainer. He came up with a gimmick, just like Jerry Lewis, just like Don Knotts, just like any successful entertainer. He defined his audience, and he plays to that audience. Very successfully. He tells them exactly what they want to hear, and does it full on, every day. White is black, up is down, wet is dry, doesn't matter. As long as that's what his target audience wants to hear, that's what he'll say, and they love him for it; and he does it very, very well. He makes a hell of a lot of money doing it. Rest assured, if the majority of Americans loved Putin, Tucker Carlson would hate his guts. That's just his thing. Can't fault the guy for that, it's how he makes his money. Mind you, I don't think his anti-american pro-Putin rhetoric is at all helpful or adds any value to anything, but he certainly seems to be good at selling it to somebody! So yes, in spite of that, I say: Tucker Carlson - a hardworking entertainer, just out to make a buck the best way he knows how to. And doing a damn fine job of it too. He came up with a formula and it certainly seems to be working for him.


I agree with your assessment, as for most of the talking heads on tv. I guess the difference between a grifter and an entertainer is how successful a brand you build for yourself, and he is good at that. I wish he had some moral anchoring, even if its something I don't agree with.


Funny that. Liberals don't care about much anything "moral". Well except when it's someone they don't agree with. Then they use the playbook to attack the person. Not the substance.

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Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:11 am
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Quote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-loss ... 41220.html

WASHINGTON — President Vladimir Putin of Russia has thrust himself more directly into strategic planning for the war in Ukraine in recent weeks, American officials said, including rejecting requests from his commanders on the ground that they be allowed to retreat from the vital southern city of Kherson.

A withdrawal from Kherson would allow the Russian military to pull back across the Dnieper River in an orderly way, preserving its equipment and saving the lives of soldiers.


...Since Putin ordered his commanders to continue fighting in Kherson, the Russian military has tried to halt the Ukrainian advance there. Last week the Russians blew up a dam on the Inhulets River to make the current counteroffensive more difficult.

But Ukrainian strikes have blown up the crossings over the Dnieper River, which has largely cut off Russian troops from their supply lines on the other side. Russians have had to use pontoon bridges to cross the river, only to see them hit by Ukrainian fire, Ukrainian officials said. “They’ve got units in there who, if the Ukrainians break through the lines, will be cut off and surrounded,” said Seth G. Jones, senior vice president at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. “I cannot overstate how dicey the situation is for them.”

Pulling back past the Dnieper River would likely allow Russian commanders to hold the line in the south with fewer troops. That would give them more latitude to redeploy forces from Kherson to other areas, either pushing back against the Kharkiv counteroffensive in the northeast, solidifying defensive lines in the eastern Donbas region or opening up a new front in the south.

But Putin has told commanders he will set the strategy.


From comments :

Quote:
Funny how General Paulus of Germany ask for the same permission to pull back from Stalingrad but it was denied by Hitler. We know what happened afterwards. All tyrants behave the same.

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Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:35 pm
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Pablo wrote:
Funny that. Liberals don't care about much anything "moral". Well except when it's someone they don't agree with. Then they use the playbook to attack the person. Not the substance.


I'm so far from being a "liberal"... Nevertheless I find very little substance in Tucker comments regarding Ukraine war - just shallow demagoguery loosely based on Russian propaganda often quoting Tucker's comments in translation as a voice of a "agreeable" American... If anything, Tucker's musings on Ukraine war are just another sad reflection of the end of post-WW2 "United Nations" vision of "rule-based" world peace and final end of America as its leader and a "beacon of freedom" against "tyranny" and a disillusionment with these ideals in its citizens... Sad.

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Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”

Ronald Reagan Oct. 27, 1964


Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:56 pm
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SurfPerch wrote:
Pablo wrote:
Funny that. Liberals don't care about much anything "moral". Well except when it's someone they don't agree with. Then they use the playbook to attack the person. Not the substance.


I'm so far from being a "liberal"... Nevertheless I find very little substance in Tucker comments regarding Ukraine war - just shallow demagoguery loosely based on Russian propaganda often quoting Tucker's comments in translation as a voice of a "agreeable" American... If anything, Tucker's musings on Ukraine war are just another sad reflection of the end of post-WW2 "United Nations" vision of "rule-based" world peace and final end of America as its leader and a "beacon of freedom" against "tyranny" and a disillusionment with these ideals in its citizens... Sad.


Missed my point. Re-read. (EDIT: Point is the LEFT (not YOU) will just attack the person and not even talk about the issue at hand. )

I actually don't agree with Tucker on the Ukraine war, pretty much agree with what you just posted.

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Last edited by Pablo on Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:09 am
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corpsman wrote:
I don't think it is reasonable to expect honest elections
from either side. Hell, we don't have them here.


Many pro-Ukrainians were driven from the Russian bordering (and invaded) donbasses. So the area is a mess right now anyway and a fair election might be suspect.

In addition, native Russians were being imported into the Soviet Republics during the Soviet days to dilute the native populations.

It's a recipe for future conflict.


Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:40 am
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