I fail to see how wolves released that far away made it to the cascades. They would have had to pass through the Spokane area and then into Wenatchee and the cascades. They would have had to cross into many areas full of people in very open terrain before ending up over here. They also would of had to cross a few large rivers. Research locally by experts states they have been here all along. I tend to agree with that, at least here. They were not even detected until game cameras picked them up by accident I think around 2006. I think ours are unrelated to a release that far away.

Arctic gray wolves run hundreds of miles all the time. I know because I used to live in Alaska and I've hunted them there and I've witnessed it first hand.


Prior to the 1995 release there were myriad zoological and biological papers written about how wolves had been eradicated from washington. Let's not pretend they naturally migrated back here. No One believes that and we have news articles proving they were released in neighboring Idaho and showing their migration from their to Washington.

That was a good read. Look how beautiful and so sacred! Well at least in my opinion. I guess I am biased. I used to have one, Nikki. My brother rescued her in Montana from a bad snowstorm one year. He left her with me for 2 years until she passed away from old age. I miss her.

Disagree with what? That the NorthWestern Gray Wolf is almost impossible to reintroduce?
Why? I'm not saying that subspecies is necessarily extinct, but do to interbreeding with other subspecies, a true NW Wolf is not the same as people who hate wolves claim to be. Btw, a NW Wolf is about the largest subspecies of Gray Wolf.
Not sure what you're getting at with the reintroduction into Idaho and killing them. What are you refuting that I said? I agree with you, unlike some about where our Washington wolves came from, and also that they need to be managed. I just completely disagree with you about killing them all off.
Ecosystems are super fragile the world over. Taking an apex predator out, has an affect no matter what. Saying humans are taking the place of the wolf, is super disingenuous. Thats not true, you know that. We don't scavenge the way they, we dont keep small game down like they do, cull sick and weak deer, etc. Are we the apex predator, sure, we just don't have the ability to replace the wolf in the ecosystem.

After we exterminated wolves from WA there wasn't some epidemic of diseased ungulates decimating deer and elk and moose numbers. However after importing non-native invasive arctic wolves the elk numbers are suffering badly.

Humans absolutely have taken the place of wolves. Maybe we don't prey on excess young and diseased elderly, but anyone born after 1977 who took Hunter's Education knows that we have game units and point and gender limits in order to conserve game species. Human hunting has become primarily an act of conservation. That's something far more sophisticated than what wolves can do. Archaeology shows us that Earth's history is littered with animal species wiping each other out through overhunting and population explosions. Humans are the only species in the planet's history that actually care about other species' survival and manage hunting and harvesting accordingly.

The notion that wolves would do a better job managing elk and moose populations than us is absurd on its face. Where the hell are the wolf hunting season manuals? Where are the game unit rules distributed by these wolf packs? You going to tell me they meet up and decide how many animals can be eaten in each region?

In my experience people who assume animal predators do a better job than humans know nothing about modern, organized human hunting which primarily serves as conservation.

Clearly no one's mind is getting changed. What you keep failing to see though is that on many, in fact most points I agree with you. Just shouting louder about "big wolves bad", isn't helping anything. They ARE a problem, I AGREE! They can be managed, by us. I dont think I ever mentioned wolves managing themselves or whatever ridiculous words your putting in my mouth.

I was giving new info and addressing new points specifically.

Lots of species should be eradicated. Is anyone arguing against destroying mosquitos if it were possible and practical? They are one of the most destructive animals that exist killing millions of humans every year.

Wolves are past their era, they don't belong in modern society. We no longer need them and they cause more problems than they solve. I already demonstrated how human hunting is superior to wolves. As far as the absurd "wolves change rivers" that's even sillier because we do a better job and we don't want rivers changing that way because of flooding and hydropower.

Believe me, I've taken zoology classes and I've heard every pro-wolf argument out there. There is nothing wolves do that humans don't do better or do something that compensates for it better.

Other than your opinion, you haven't shown anything at all actually. I will give you that number of deer and elk dropped. What else has been decimating those same animals? CWD/Blue Tongue, Hoof Rot, record bad winters. They kill more than wolves. Together they are wreaking havoc on populations, no argument here. Much like the DFW trying to get a handle on the diseases killing them, they need to get a handle on the wolves.

Question. What's your position on cougars? When they banned cougar hunting with dogs, the population exploded, human encounters, pet deaths, livestock kills, rose drastically while the deer population dropped.
Do we need Cougars? Can humans replace them? Does the ecosystem need them?

White Pass.
As the wolves have managed to push elk to either or higher lower altitudes, it's created more than just an inconvenient issue.
They've seen wolves within the city limits of Packwood.
Elk have been getting pushed around to areas we haven't seen much of before, either starving up high or playing chicken with vehicles low.
Wolves are a beautiful animal, but to open the flood gates knowing full well the long term effects, stupid people really screwed up that decision.
Majestic as they are, they are a natural born killer.

Killler Whales
Cougars
Sea lions
Otters
Bears

Its interesting that until the mass migration of people to the country, they were really no problem. The native Americans lived with and even worshiped them just fine. Its only a problem post 1900 or so now when humans have to live in every space available and do nothing to stop the constant urban transformation of more and more land. We too should be keeping ourselves in check and not acting like some dominant virus that demands everything else submit. Its acting like the Borg. Its lunacy. I could push out so many Spock quotes about humans stupid decisions right now but I am not in my Trekkie mode.

They need to look to MN for how to deal with the wolves. My brother lives up on the north shore of Superior where they reintroduced wolves.... started with a small pack which has now grown to many packs. He actually would see wolves running his property throughout the year and watch them chasing the deer in the winter - which he fed. The locals have gotten used to them --- much like the bears, coyotes, bobcats, lynx and badgers. Granted there isn't much in the way of livestock ranches up there - but they do serve their purpose - to thin out the deer herds. Deer pops get so out of control that car accidents are at an all time high from them - and not to mention the deer starving in harsh winters (global warming donchano).

The wolves were here before we were - we drove them out (or killed them) - they deserve to come back and the environment needs needs them back for balance. When are humans going to stop thinking we know better than mother nature.....

Yes, we need to bring back hound hunting. It's no coincidence lion population has exploded to the point where even the libtard government increases tag counts every year but fulfilling those tags is near impossible to the scale of population increase, and thus we got one of the first fatal lion attacks on a human in WA history because their numbers are out of control. And yes, the lion was perfectly healthy with no diseases.
https://komonews.com/news/local/cougar- ... r-necropsy


Nature's not alive. There is no magic earth spirit. Holy shit. Too many people watched Captain Planet and think Gaia is some real thing. The romans and greeks personified the planets, including our own. They also drank out of lead straws and bled themselves to expel bad "humors." Don't emulate them.

Also, letting the earth do "it's thing" means most things die. If you study evolution and history 99.999999999% of all species get wiped out. There have been so many mass extinctions. This hippie bullshit about mother earth and nature being worshipped is insane. Too many people did LSD in the 70s. If "mother earth" was real, it would be the devil or a vampire. Look at the fossil record!

By that logic a Pitbull is the same as a St Bernard is the same as a Chihuahua