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 DEALERSHIP RIPOFFS & some good ones. 
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STED9R wrote:
lamrith wrote:
No kia dealers in WA showing no markup. Westhills was zero markup, but non refundable deposit and a number of mandatory add-ons, one which was adding a module to make the tail light blink. FU messing with the electronics on my brand new vehicle.

Seem to recall that blinking/flashing taillights/brake lights are a no no.


Turn signals and 4 way flashers are the only legally allowed flashing lights other than emergency vehicles and other exemptions re: tow trucks, mail carriers, slow moving vehicles, etc.

Flashing brake lights violate both state law in terms of flashing lights, and also FMVSS for modifying the intended design of the lamp.

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Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:42 pm
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If they are illegal, why did you have me buy them for my truck when we changed out to all LED??

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Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:24 pm
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TechnoWeenie wrote:
STED9R wrote:
lamrith wrote:
No kia dealers in WA showing no markup. Westhills was zero markup, but non refundable deposit and a number of mandatory add-ons, one which was adding a module to make the tail light blink. FU messing with the electronics on my brand new vehicle.

Seem to recall that blinking/flashing taillights/brake lights are a no no.


Turn signals and 4 way flashers are the only legally allowed flashing lights other than emergency vehicles and other exemptions re: tow trucks, mail carriers, slow moving vehicles, etc.

Flashing brake lights violate both state law in terms of flashing lights, and also FMVSS for modifying the intended design of the lamp.


Hazard flashers are required and can be activated in addition to the brake lights "for the purpose of warning other operators of other vehicles of the presence of a vehicular traffic hazard requiring the exercise of unusual care in approaching, overtaking, or passing."

I'm not familiar with the KIA flashing brake lights but on some BMWs the brake light comes on continuously when the pedal is pressed, under heavy braking applications flashing hazard lights blink as well

In the video below the blinking center high mount brake light would be illegal but not the blinking hazard light down low


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Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:31 pm
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It’s called dynamic brake lights. Teslas have them, OEM. If it’s a rapid deceleration the brake lights will flash rapidly.


Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:05 pm
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usrifle wrote:
If they are illegal, why did you have me buy them for my truck when we changed out to all LED??


Same reason why I tell people to get LED retrofits that are technically illegal.

They work..

:wink05:

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Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:10 pm
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Massivedesign wrote:
It’s called dynamic brake lights. Teslas have them, OEM. If it’s a rapid deceleration the brake lights will flash rapidly.



Yup, and it's designed that way by the manufacturer with a variance approved by NHTSA (I think it is)...

So, no federal laws are broken.

Not sure how they get around state law...

Probably one of those 'no eating ice cream cones on a Tuesday' laws that no one cares about.

Shit, I've seen red whelen TIR3s on a strobing flash pattern on the back of garbage trucks, clearly in violation of the law, and WSP didn't give a shit.

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Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:13 pm
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RocketScott wrote:
TechnoWeenie wrote:
STED9R wrote:
lamrith wrote:
No kia dealers in WA showing no markup. Westhills was zero markup, but non refundable deposit and a number of mandatory add-ons, one which was adding a module to make the tail light blink. FU messing with the electronics on my brand new vehicle.

Seem to recall that blinking/flashing taillights/brake lights are a no no.


Turn signals and 4 way flashers are the only legally allowed flashing lights other than emergency vehicles and other exemptions re: tow trucks, mail carriers, slow moving vehicles, etc.

Flashing brake lights violate both state law in terms of flashing lights, and also FMVSS for modifying the intended design of the lamp.


Hazard flashers are required and can be activated in addition to the brake lights "for the purpose of warning other operators of other vehicles of the presence of a vehicular traffic hazard requiring the exercise of unusual care in approaching, overtaking, or passing."

I'm not familiar with the KIA flashing brake lights but on some BMWs the brake light comes on continuously when the pedal is pressed, under heavy braking applications flashing hazard lights blink as well

In the video below the blinking center high mount brake light would be illegal but not the blinking hazard light down low



Hazard flashers are 4 way flashers...

hazard flashers CANNOT flash the CHMSL under federal law. CHMSL is restricted to a single function only, and that's to be a CHMSL.

The main difference under state law between turn signals and 4 way flashers is that turn signals have to flash between 60 and 120Hz, whereas, IIRC, there is no restriction on 4 way flashers so you can wire in strobe patterns, as I have on previous vehicles..

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Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:16 pm
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TechnoWeenie wrote:
Hazard flashers are 4 way flashers...
...
The main difference under state law between turn signals and 4 way flashers is that turn signals have to flash between 60 and 120Hz, whereas, IIRC, there is no restriction on 4 way flashers so you can wire in strobe patterns, as I have on previous vehicles..


They're not called 4 way flashers in state law, because they aren't required to flash 4 ways. The front have to flash simultaneously and the rear have to flash simultaneously but there's no requirement that front and rear flash together. I couldn't find any requirement for flash rate of either those or turn signals in the RCW

TechnoWeenie wrote:
hazard flashers CANNOT flash the CHMSL under federal law. CHMSL is restricted to a single function only, and that's to be a CHMSL.


State law too. That's why I pointed out that the flashing CHMSL in that video would be illegal

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Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:40 am
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RocketScott wrote:
TechnoWeenie wrote:
Hazard flashers are 4 way flashers...
...
The main difference under state law between turn signals and 4 way flashers is that turn signals have to flash between 60 and 120Hz, whereas, IIRC, there is no restriction on 4 way flashers so you can wire in strobe patterns, as I have on previous vehicles..


They're not called 4 way flashers in state law, because they aren't required to flash 4 ways. The front have to flash simultaneously and the rear have to flash simultaneously but there's no requirement that front and rear flash together. I couldn't find any requirement for flash rate of either those or turn signals in the RCW

TechnoWeenie wrote:
hazard flashers CANNOT flash the CHMSL under federal law. CHMSL is restricted to a single function only, and that's to be a CHMSL.


State law too. That's why I pointed out that the flashing CHMSL in that video would be illegal


I meant 60-120 FPM, not hz...

Correct, front and rear can flash separately provide all front flash simultaneously and all rear flash simultaneously. Logistically though, that's not gonna happen.

and you can't find it in RCW because it's not in RCW... It's hidden in WAC...

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=204-21-060

Quote:
WAC 204-21-060
Turn signal lamps.
(1) Turn signal lamps visible to approaching or following drivers must:
(a) Flash at a rate of sixty to one hundred twenty flashes per minute.
(b) Flash in unison. Except that a turn signal consisting of two or more units mounted horizontally may flash in sequence from inboard to outboard. The lamps may either be extinguished simultaneously or lighted simultaneously.
(c) Be mounted and operated as follows:
(i) On motor vehicles, turn signal systems must:
(A) Have four separate lamps consisting of at least two single-faced or double-faced turn signal lamps on or near the front and at least two single-faced lamps on the rear. Except that a truck-tractor or a truck chassis without a body or load may be equipped with one double-faced turn signal lamp on each side in lieu of the four separate lamps otherwise required on motor vehicles. If double-faced turn lamps are used, they must be mounted ahead of the center of the steering wheel or the center of the outside rearview mirror, whichever is rearmost.
(B) Be spaced as far apart as practical.
(C) Have the optical center of the front turn signal at least four inches from the inside diameter of the retaining ring of the lower beam headlamp unit, fog lamp unit, or passing lamp unit. Except original equipment turn signals that emit two and one-half times the minimum candela requirements may be closer.
(ii) For motorcycles, the front and rear turn signal lamps must be at least nine inches apart, except that front turn signals on motorcycles manufactured after January 1, 1973, must be at least sixteen inches apart.
(iii) On the rearmost towed vehicle in combination of vehicles, turn signal systems must be equipped with at least two single-faced turn signal lamps on the rear. The signal system on a combination of vehicles towed by a motor vehicle equipped with double-faced front turn signal lamps may be connected so only the double-faced turn signal lamps on the towing vehicle and the signal lamps on the rear of the rearmost vehicle are operative.
(2) Side turn signal lamps must:
(a) Meet SAE Standard J914.
(b) Be mounted on the side not lower than twenty inches or higher than seventy-two inches.
(c) Flash with the front and rear turn signal lamps on their respective sides of the vehicle. On vehicles with sequential turn signal lamps, the side turn signal lamps must flash with the front turn signal lamps.
(d) Flash with the rear turn signal lamps, if the side lamps flash when the hazard warning switch is actuated.

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Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:18 am
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This list doesn't tell you anything about good or bad dealerships, it just lists a few dealerships that charge a markup on a single vehicle to a single person.

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Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:09 pm
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Beretta Dave wrote:
This list doesn't tell you anything about good or bad dealerships, it just lists a few dealerships that charge a markup on a single vehicle to a single person.


How's that saying go?

1 is random, 2 is a coincidence, 3 is a pattern?

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Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:13 pm
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Not so funny to talking about this now!
Me and my kid went down to Longview and traded his couple year old new lemon Toyota truck in on a F350 last night.
They wouldn't budge off the $485 red alert brake kit, flat out said they installed it and it's part of the truck now. The kid has a bit to learn about being a full on obstinate prick so he went along with it. We get home and I'm thinking this is full bullshit as I didn't see any evidence of them adding anything under the dash or anywhere else when I went through it. Found that not only did they not install anything, but the third brake light is burnt out, along with the canopy lighting wires pulled out.
Fuckers. He called today and was more than a little pissed that not only did they use him, but I laughed at him for being a weak pussy.
He should be getting that refund here shortly.
When I bought my last truck the dealer tried to make me pay for anti theft stickers a few years back. Told them no and if they want them back to go pull them off as there's no way in hell I'm paying for anything that wasn't factory installed.


Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:46 pm
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TechnoWeenie wrote:
Beretta Dave wrote:
This list doesn't tell you anything about good or bad dealerships, it just lists a few dealerships that charge a markup on a single vehicle to a single person.


How's that saying go?

1 is random, 2 is a coincidence, 3 is a pattern?


Where's the pattern? It's a bunch of random dealerships, not a list of every dealership's practices.

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Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:57 pm
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All of the bike shops within 150 miles of my location are selling adventure bikes at 30 to 80% markup. It's such bullshit.

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Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:23 am
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Beretta Dave wrote:
TechnoWeenie wrote:
Beretta Dave wrote:
This list doesn't tell you anything about good or bad dealerships, it just lists a few dealerships that charge a markup on a single vehicle to a single person.


How's that saying go?

1 is random, 2 is a coincidence, 3 is a pattern?


Where's the pattern? It's a bunch of random dealerships, not a list of every dealership's practices.

This wasn't meant to be about dealership practices.
It is meant to be used for those asshole dealerships out there charging over MSRP.

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Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:14 am
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