Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:01 pm
I can understand wanting to have your pup with you when you go out shooting, and wanting them to be used to the noise, but ask yourself how much hearing loss do you want them to suffer. Remember that their hearing is much more sensitive than yours, and you are probably wearing ear muffs when you go shootings.
I have a lab pup (now 9 months old) that I thought about getting acclimated to pistol and rifle sounds so I can take her camping with me where we also go shooting, until I researched just how much damage it does to their hearing.
In every study they have done with hunting dogs (12 gauge shotguns), over time they have a decrease in their hearing responses, with a three-fold decrease in their ability to hear soft noises such as a whisper. Now shotguns are not even the decibel level of pistols and rifles (except 22's), so pistols and rifles will do even more hearing damage. How close the dog is to the gunfire also has a big effect. In some situations, a dog can experience decreased hearing after the first outing shooting.
If a person wants to train a dog to be a hunting dog, than that is just the price of having a hunting dog, but for a family pet that you think of as one of your kids, I could not do that to my pup. She is not afraid (so far) of fireworks, lawn mowers, vacuums, gunshots on TV with the sound up loud, so I know I could acclimate her to gunfire but have no desire to harm her hearing. I have thought about getting dog muffs (mutt muffs http://www.safeandsoundpets.com/index.html) and try to get her used to wearing them when we are out shooting.
It comes down to how you view your dog and its purpose: going to be a hunting dog; just a pet; or part of the family. My pup's mom is owned by a friend of mine, so I have known my pup since she was only a couple of weeks old and had her picked out as my pup by the time she was a month old. I had to wait until she was weaned and eating solid food before I could take her home (a little over 7 weeks), so for me she is part of the family and I could not choose to cause any hearing lose. Again it comes down to how you view your dog and what purpose you have it for.
Here is a chart of the different decibel levels including individual calibers. http://www.m1911.org/loudness.htm
I have a lab pup (now 9 months old) that I thought about getting acclimated to pistol and rifle sounds so I can take her camping with me where we also go shooting, until I researched just how much damage it does to their hearing.
In every study they have done with hunting dogs (12 gauge shotguns), over time they have a decrease in their hearing responses, with a three-fold decrease in their ability to hear soft noises such as a whisper. Now shotguns are not even the decibel level of pistols and rifles (except 22's), so pistols and rifles will do even more hearing damage. How close the dog is to the gunfire also has a big effect. In some situations, a dog can experience decreased hearing after the first outing shooting.
If a person wants to train a dog to be a hunting dog, than that is just the price of having a hunting dog, but for a family pet that you think of as one of your kids, I could not do that to my pup. She is not afraid (so far) of fireworks, lawn mowers, vacuums, gunshots on TV with the sound up loud, so I know I could acclimate her to gunfire but have no desire to harm her hearing. I have thought about getting dog muffs (mutt muffs http://www.safeandsoundpets.com/index.html) and try to get her used to wearing them when we are out shooting.
It comes down to how you view your dog and its purpose: going to be a hunting dog; just a pet; or part of the family. My pup's mom is owned by a friend of mine, so I have known my pup since she was only a couple of weeks old and had her picked out as my pup by the time she was a month old. I had to wait until she was weaned and eating solid food before I could take her home (a little over 7 weeks), so for me she is part of the family and I could not choose to cause any hearing lose. Again it comes down to how you view your dog and what purpose you have it for.
Here is a chart of the different decibel levels including individual calibers. http://www.m1911.org/loudness.htm
Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:34 pm
Not trying to steal a thread, BUT:
jmathisn, for your 2nd post that was pretty good !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Welcome to WaGuns !!!
cootduster
jmathisn, for your 2nd post that was pretty good !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Welcome to WaGuns !!!cootduster
Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:51 pm
jmathisn wrote:I can understand wanting to have your pup with you when you go out shooting, and wanting them to be used to the noise, but ask yourself how much hearing loss do you want them to suffer. Remember that their hearing is much more sensitive than yours, and you are probably wearing ear muffs when you go shootings.
I have a lab pup (now 9 months old) that I thought about getting acclimated to pistol and rifle sounds so I can take her camping with me where we also go shooting, until I researched just how much damage it does to their hearing.
In every study they have done with hunting dogs (12 gauge shotguns), over time they have a decrease in their hearing responses, with a three-fold decrease in their ability to hear soft noises such as a whisper. Now shotguns are not even the decibel level of pistols and rifles (except 22's), so pistols and rifles will do even more hearing damage. How close the dog is to the gunfire also has a big effect. In some situations, a dog can experience decreased hearing after the first outing shooting.
If a person wants to train a dog to be a hunting dog, than that is just the price of having a hunting dog, but for a family pet that you think of as one of your kids, I could not do that to my pup. She is not afraid (so far) of fireworks, lawn mowers, vacuums, gunshots on TV with the sound up loud, so I know I could acclimate her to gunfire but have no desire to harm her hearing. I have thought about getting dog muffs (mutt muffs http://www.safeandsoundpets.com/index.html) and try to get her used to wearing them when we are out shooting.
It comes down to how you view your dog and its purpose: going to be a hunting dog; just a pet; or part of the family. My pup's mom is owned by a friend of mine, so I have known my pup since she was only a couple of weeks old and had her picked out as my pup by the time she was a month old. I had to wait until she was weaned and eating solid food before I could take her home (a little over 7 weeks), so for me she is part of the family and I could not choose to cause any hearing lose. Again it comes down to how you view your dog and what purpose you have it for.
Here is a chart of the different decibel levels including individual calibers. http://www.m1911.org/loudness.htm
I too appreciate your post and the decibel chart... very informative. Our last yellow lab was so jumpy by various sounds, garage door opener, furnace kicking in, etc. She would not come into my shop even with the garage door open if there was a chance any tool large or small would run. I never had gunfire with her around. 4th of July was very hard on her. Levi ( the new pup ) shows no sign of that behavior. I just want to have an easy transition into it with him and hope that the neighborhood fireworks don't effect him as severely. Thanks for your input and Welcome also !!
Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:25 am
I was at Cascade about a week ago and a guy showed up with his Springer pup. The dog didn't freak out at all and I was shooting my 5.56 with a PWS muzzle break which is not friendly to anyone not directly in back of it.
Awesome info on the hearing loss, never really crossed my mind. So depending on what the dogs purpose is that's definitely something to consider.
Awesome info on the hearing loss, never really crossed my mind. So depending on what the dogs purpose is that's definitely something to consider.
Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:35 am
Take them to the gun range. Sit in the car with them at first and let them listen to the noise. As they get used to it then go in and shoot while they remain in the car/truck.
A lot of my fellow shooters, back when I did a lot of trap shooting, would bring their young dogs to the shotgun range and tie their leashes to the fence behind the firing line.
A starter pistol and a fetch toy works well too.
FWIW, some dogs just don't give a crap about loud noises like fireworks or gunfire. I have a 10 year old Shih-Tsu that would sleep in the car while I was at the range. Some thought he was deaf but that thought was de-bunked when they saw how he'd come running from another part of the house when he heard the "treat bag" being opened :).
Same for the Fourth of July. He just sleeps upside down on our bed while the neighborhood "fights the War of 1812" outside.
A lot of my fellow shooters, back when I did a lot of trap shooting, would bring their young dogs to the shotgun range and tie their leashes to the fence behind the firing line.
A starter pistol and a fetch toy works well too.
FWIW, some dogs just don't give a crap about loud noises like fireworks or gunfire. I have a 10 year old Shih-Tsu that would sleep in the car while I was at the range. Some thought he was deaf but that thought was de-bunked when they saw how he'd come running from another part of the house when he heard the "treat bag" being opened :).
Same for the Fourth of July. He just sleeps upside down on our bed while the neighborhood "fights the War of 1812" outside.
Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:59 am
We trained our yellow lab with a .22. Started with my son about 100 yards away. A shot about every 10 seconds. then my son got closer. Had the dog on a leash and he was getting a good scratch and pet the whole time. Sone walked to within about 10 yards and fired a few more rounds, and Cedar took interest but was never scared.
After that we moved on to shotguns a few days later. Same thing. Cedar sees a firearm of any type now, and he gets excited, knowing it is time to hunt.
After that we moved on to shotguns a few days later. Same thing. Cedar sees a firearm of any type now, and he gets excited, knowing it is time to hunt.
Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:04 pm
Many thanks for the suggestions. He comes home full time Friday the 13th & I'm pumped up !!
Oly, I could take him to work with me in Des Moines as an alternate to Renton..... lots of gun play & plenty of sketchy places in the hood between Hwy 99 & I-5 where I'd feel more comfortable packing..... alas, city worker & denied. Photos upcoming this weekend.
Oly, I could take him to work with me in Des Moines as an alternate to Renton..... lots of gun play & plenty of sketchy places in the hood between Hwy 99 & I-5 where I'd feel more comfortable packing..... alas, city worker & denied. Photos upcoming this weekend.
Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:35 am
The cap gun/treat approach has worked great ! Doesn't faze him at all, he's more curious and wants to sniff it..... moving up to my .22 next. Thankfully, I've got a couple boxes ! Running low on treats..... I'm hoping to get him OK before the 4th chaos in the neighborhood.
Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:42 am
Another thought might be to bring him to the range (or wherever there are loud, sharp noises going on) with another, older, already desensitized dog. Lily was a bit jumpy last year with the fireworks/random idiots firing into the air last 4 July, but having Norman there, completely ignoring the noises, helped settle her quickly. This year, we already have (swear word)s setting off fireworks, and neither Lily nor Norman have paid the noises any mind.
Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:13 pm
Update...
Great progress today...... Road trip up to the FS 70 road this morning. While Levi is in the cab, I'm outside with his window down 5-6 inches. I hand over a treat and commence firing the Ruger .22 pistol. He's a bit startled.... a lot louder than the cap gun... but soon settles in and appreciates the treat . After a couple mags worth, I put him and his chew toy duck & bone in the truck bed and continue. Same result..... happy for a treat, oblivious to the noise. Several mags later, I open the tailgate & he happily starts to sniff around & explore in a 15 - 20 foot range. . After reloading, I start up again and it's the same result, come to me for a treat, go sniff & piddle....BANG BANG BANG more treats, etc. I'm not sure if I'll run out of treats or ammo first, but this puppy is showing great hope !! I may go back up on the morning of the 4th & replay this and add in my Beretta 92. So far, so good !!
Great progress today...... Road trip up to the FS 70 road this morning. While Levi is in the cab, I'm outside with his window down 5-6 inches. I hand over a treat and commence firing the Ruger .22 pistol. He's a bit startled.... a lot louder than the cap gun... but soon settles in and appreciates the treat . After a couple mags worth, I put him and his chew toy duck & bone in the truck bed and continue. Same result..... happy for a treat, oblivious to the noise. Several mags later, I open the tailgate & he happily starts to sniff around & explore in a 15 - 20 foot range. . After reloading, I start up again and it's the same result, come to me for a treat, go sniff & piddle....BANG BANG BANG more treats, etc. I'm not sure if I'll run out of treats or ammo first, but this puppy is showing great hope !! I may go back up on the morning of the 4th & replay this and add in my Beretta 92. So far, so good !!
Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:26 pm
Update from early on the 4th:
MY shepherd is doing fan-fucking-tastic. She could care less about the fireworks going off and wants to play. We had neighbors lighting shit off close last night and she did wonderful. The OTHER shepherd isn't having as good of a time, but she isn't going bat shit crazy either. She's jittery and is weirding out MY dog. Mine's looking at her like "wtf is wrong with YOU?'
We are going to light our fireworks off later, I'll update how they did.
MY shepherd is doing fan-fucking-tastic. She could care less about the fireworks going off and wants to play. We had neighbors lighting shit off close last night and she did wonderful. The OTHER shepherd isn't having as good of a time, but she isn't going bat shit crazy either. She's jittery and is weirding out MY dog. Mine's looking at her like "wtf is wrong with YOU?'
We are going to light our fireworks off later, I'll update how they did.
Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:43 am
Levi paid no attention to the neighborhood chaos...... it started early in the day and went on way into the night. The only time he got startled was when he saw several of those flying paper lanterns overhead. I had my concerns about them also...... nothing like a random fire bomb igniting your property ! He continues to surprise & amaze for such a young one.
Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:22 am
We had the dogs inside while we lit ours off. It was loud and crazy, and they slept right through it. Both of them. The wife's little dog went full retard, so I know it was easy to hear it all inside the house.
Next step is actually shooting around them. I'm not too worried anymore about my shep, the kid's shep might need a little reassurance, but I know it will come around just fine too.
Next step is actually shooting around them. I'm not too worried anymore about my shep, the kid's shep might need a little reassurance, but I know it will come around just fine too.
Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:21 am
twolane wrote:I've never tried it, but an RO I was speaking with at a GSSF match (he had his little dog there) once told me he used action movies and his surround sound system. Play with the dog and have a great time. Gradually increase the volume of whatever you choose to play (maybe a training video?) and just do that a few times. He swore it was all he did to his little guy.
Yeah I would do that with treats/praise and then work up to actual live fire, with treats/praise.
Re: How do I acclimate my lab puppy to gunfire?
Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:35 am
Our german shepherd was never afraid of gunfire. Usually, she just lays down in the shade and watches us. One day, however, we were both shooting our ar15's and she started whimpering and looking disoriented.
Turns out that she went temporary deaf. We stopped immediately and went home, then I bought sone muff mitts and she hasn't had a problem since. I highly recommend getting your pup hearing protection if you want to take it shooting, flying, motorcycling, or around any prolonged loud activity.
Turns out that she went temporary deaf. We stopped immediately and went home, then I bought sone muff mitts and she hasn't had a problem since. I highly recommend getting your pup hearing protection if you want to take it shooting, flying, motorcycling, or around any prolonged loud activity.