missing child = warrantless search ?

[Soldier_Citizen]

Freedom in so many ways is not something we have anymore. Hell you can't bury a horse on your own property in Clark county. You can't build a home without permits, the list goes on and on. That's not freedom. We as people may be born with it, but many of our freedoms have been stripped away and they continue to take more and more away from us.

[Mohawk13]

AHHHH....Yeah..Agreed...That is why we need change...One reason I left Washington. There are still places in this Country where the .Gov has not turned into a class of douchewagon that is beyond reproach or control.......And why the hell would You want to bury a horse on Your property anyways..Just call up the rendering plant and get some $$ for that carcass....And Building permits are everywhere..WA is one of the worst for control of them, but at least Jo Blow isn't building a shack next door to You.....Seems like You have an axe to grind with local .Gov...Attitude/Latitude...Both are easy to change...just have to have the will to do it.....Nuff Said

[root]

You can feel all you want. However in practice you are not and should not get what you want.

Kid missing = you are no longer rational. You no longer get to make that call.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[ANZAC]

You can feel all you want. However in practice you are not and should not get what you want.

Kid missing = you are no longer rational. You no longer get to make that call.

Yeah, the police do.

[glockgirl]

Interesting discussion.

So, BadKarma and glockgirl . . . if there is a neighborhood child missing and you aren't at home, do you think it's acceptable for the police to:

- Enter your back yard if the gate is closed and simply latched?
- Cut the padlock on your gate to the back yard, if there is one?
- Break the front door of your house, if it's locked?

I'm genuinely curious.

Let's assume that they are just searching the neighborhood and don't have any specific information leading them to believe that the child is on YOUR property.

If the LEO's have reason to believe that the child is being held by someone on my property, then yes. I'm okay with them doing all of those things. If, however, the LEO's have no specific information that the child is being held on my property, then I would only be okay with entering my backyard (through the unlatched gate) and peering in windows.

[mash man]

Interesting discussion.

So, BadKarma and glockgirl . . . if there is a neighborhood child missing and you aren't at home, do you think it's acceptable for the police to:

- Enter your back yard if the gate is closed and simply latched?
- Cut the padlock on your gate to the back yard, if there is one?
- Break the front door of your house, if it's locked?

I'm genuinely curious.

Let's assume that they are just searching the neighborhood and don't have any specific information leading them to believe that the child is on YOUR property.

If the LEO's have reason to believe that the child is being held by someone on my property, then yes. I'm okay with them doing all of those things. If, however, the LEO's have no specific information that the child is being held on my property, then I would only be okay with entering my backyard (through the unlatched gate) and peering in windows.

i agree with Jen

[TechnoWeenie]

If, however, the LEO's have no specific information that the child is being held on my property, then I would only be okay with entering my backyard (through the unlatched gate) and peering in windows.

W T F

So you're OK with a stranger going into your gated/fenced yard and peeking in the windows, under the 'it's for the childrunz' guise?

Seriously?


We're not talking about someone knocking on your door and asking permission to go into your backyard, we're talking about a stranger walking into your backyard, without permission, without ANY reason to believe that a so-called-missing-child is back there (then shoots your dog).

I just can't believe so many people are OK with such blatant violations of privacy, common decency, and the silly thing called the constitution.

Herein lies the problem though, so many think such actions are 'reasonable', that it boggles my mind.

I'm really, honestly, surprised that more people don't take things into their own hands in situations like these.

It's scary to think that just a couple years ago I was planning for inner city hood rats as my most likely goblin, and now I'm concerned about APCs, MRAPs, and anti-personnel/anti-armor techniques.




I find it really hard to believe that so many people think a warrantless search of a fenced backyard is OK because someone called in a missing kid...

Your missing kid doesn't take away my private property rights.

[CQBgopher]

Just to spit 'shine on the campfire here...

364 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes a year, I'm against warrantless anything, and IMHO police have no "right" to be on my property, unless they have just cause to talk to *ME* about something *I* did. That being said...

My neighbor--good people--has a severely autistic child. He is 15, but has the mental where-with-all of a 5 year old. He is a good kid, but forgets things and doesn't always listen to his mom, along with the disability. Anyways, about a year ago he started coming over when he saw me at home to say hi and talk about "guy stuff".......cars, motorcycles, video games, sports. One day I noticed my shop walk-in door was open, so I went to inspect it.......ya ya, live in the country, leave shit unlocked, I know.

Well, a couple of my vehicle's doors were open, the shop fridge was completely out of all the root beer and the chocolate pudding cups. Now, I'm thinking here.....all sorts of cool stuff for a bad goblin to take, and all that happened was my old hot rods had been sat in, and all my pudding and root beer was gone. Hmmm......so over to the neighbors I go.

Bigfoot did it.....I watched him....he got in your shop and drank all your root beer and ate all your pudding and I tried to stop him...... mmmhmmmm....Bigfoot, huh? Yep....he is over there all the time....he says he wants to play your Playstation, too......oh really, how does Bigfoot know I have a Playstation? He saw it through the window.....of the house.....when he peeked in the windows...... ;)

So, his mom n family were all apologetic, embarrassed, etc etc etc. I don't really care about it, I am just glad he didn't get hurt. Now I lock my doors. Not out of fear of a burglar, but out of fear of a little boy next door offing himself with a power tool or trying to Tarzan off something and breaking both his legs.

So, if that little boy ends up missing someday and LE is called, and I'm not home, chances are my property will be searched. I'm OK with that. Any other kid in the neighborhood, I'm probably OK with that, too. Neighbors gotta stick together a lil bit.

When Lindsey Baum first went missing in McCleary, the LE were stopping vehicles going through town for quite a few many days asking for permission to question folks on if they had seen anything between the hours of blah and blah, and if they were in town between blah and blah, and if they noticed any suspicious vehicles in town between blah and blah.....now, for some folks, that would be a "are you detaining me" situation, but to me, it's just being a good person to your fellow man.


-Discuss-

[TechnoWeenie]

My neighbor--good people--has a severely autistic child. He is 15, but has the mental where-with-all of a 5 year old. He is a good kid, but forgets things and doesn't always listen to his mom, along with the disability. Anyways, about a year ago he started coming over when he saw me at home to say hi and talk about "guy stuff".......cars, motorcycles, video games, sports.
(...)

So, if that little boy ends up missing someday and LE is called, and I'm not home, chances are my property will be searched. I'm OK with that.

I think that would be reasonable.

Mentally challenged kid often wanders to the next door neighbors house, every other day. I'd say there's a reasonable suspicion that the kid is in the back yard/house if he goes missing. If it were my NEIGHBORS in my back yard, and they said 'hey, jimmy is missing, I thought he might be back here', I'd drop what I'm doing and help look. There's a huge difference between a neighbor in your back yard, and a stranger in your back yard, regardless of what clothing they may be wearing or what occupation they may have. I could have a trash man sanitation engineer picking up a couple bottles in my back yard, because he saw them there when he was picking up my trash, and I'd still be a bit miffed.

The fact is, it's NOT the neighbors, it's NOT 'reasonable' to do random searches of backyards for missing kids, nor is it reasonable to detain someone to ask them questions.

I've known my neighbors for 3 years... We do cookouts together, sit and drink/talk, hang out, etc. I still knock on their door, even though they said I can walk in whenever I want. I usually call out when I'm at their front gate, just to let them know, again, even though I'm over there at least 3-4 times a week. It's not my property, and even being invited, I still feel it's the proper thing to do.

[norahc]

If, however, the LEO's have no specific information that the child is being held on my property, then I would only be okay with entering my backyard (through the unlatched gate) and peering in windows.

W T F

So you're OK with a stranger going into your gated/fenced yard and peeking in the windows, under the 'it's for the childrunz' guise?

Seriously?


We're not talking about someone knocking on your door and asking permission to go into your backyard, we're talking about a stranger walking into your backyard, without permission, without ANY reason to believe that a so-called-missing-child is back there (then shoots your dog).

I just can't believe so many people are OK with such blatant violations of privacy, common decency, and the silly thing called the constitution.

Herein lies the problem though, so many think such actions are 'reasonable', that it boggles my mind.

I'm really, honestly, surprised that more people don't take things into their own hands in situations like these.

It's scary to think that just a couple years ago I was planning for inner city hood rats as my most likely goblin, and now I'm concerned about APCs, MRAPs, and anti-personnel/anti-armor techniques.




I find it really hard to believe that so many people think a warrantless search of a fenced backyard is OK because someone called in a missing kid...

Your missing kid doesn't take away my private property rights.

And for all those who think that searching without permission is reasonable, let me pose this scenario or two for you...

It is 2AM and you awaken to see flashlights in your back yard. You get up to investigate....are you thinking it is a prowler looking to do you harm, or a cop looking for a kid? What do you think the cops response will be when he sees you with a gun in your hand? This is a tragedy in the making that could be easily prevented by knocking on a door and asking permission.

[TechnoWeenie]

If, however, the LEO's have no specific information that the child is being held on my property, then I would only be okay with entering my backyard (through the unlatched gate) and peering in windows.

W T F

So you're OK with a stranger going into your gated/fenced yard and peeking in the windows, under the 'it's for the childrunz' guise?

Seriously?


We're not talking about someone knocking on your door and asking permission to go into your backyard, we're talking about a stranger walking into your backyard, without permission, without ANY reason to believe that a so-called-missing-child is back there (then shoots your dog).

I just can't believe so many people are OK with such blatant violations of privacy, common decency, and the silly thing called the constitution.

Herein lies the problem though, so many think such actions are 'reasonable', that it boggles my mind.

I'm really, honestly, surprised that more people don't take things into their own hands in situations like these.

It's scary to think that just a couple years ago I was planning for inner city hood rats as my most likely goblin, and now I'm concerned about APCs, MRAPs, and anti-personnel/anti-armor techniques.




I find it really hard to believe that so many people think a warrantless search of a fenced backyard is OK because someone called in a missing kid...

Your missing kid doesn't take away my private property rights.

And for all those who think that searching without permission is reasonable, let me pose this scenario or two for you...

I know it's a general question, but I'll answer.

It is 2AM and you awaken to see flashlights in your back yard. You get up to investigate....are you thinking it is a prowler looking to do you harm, or a cop looking for a kid?

Unknown, but it certainly would be approached with caution. They'll get called out, and I'll demand to know what they're doing there. I have no doubt that a light will be shined in my eyes. At that point, I can't see. Shoot the light, end the fight.

What do you think the cops response will be when he sees you with a gun in your hand?

They'll draw their firearms, if they're not already drawn. They'll force me into a position where I'll need to defend myself, as I'm not gonna let someone point a gun at me, and I'll probably be able to neutralize 1 or 2 of the threats before they hit me, depending on my cover.

This is a tragedy in the making that could be easily prevented by knocking on a door and asking permission.

yup. But in this case, the guy wasn't home, they entered his gated/fenced backyard without consent or exigent circumstances, then shot his dog.

So, let's just say that, for the sake of argument, that a missing child IS exigent circumstances, and the courts deem it as lawful to enter property without a warrant... Where is the search perimeter? next door neighbor? the whole block? the whole neighborhood? If it takes someone an hour to notice their kid is missing, presumably they could have taken public transit somewhere, so, an entire city?

Nip it in the butt, right there. It's not exigent circumstances. A kid, even a 3 y/o, can fend for themselves for quite a number of hours, even in adverse conditions, before their situation becomes critical.

[Mohawk13]

Kind of interesting some peoples feelings of a warantless search....and then read their tag lines about the Founders and firearms ownership....Some of you need to stop replying with emotion and start using some common sense. Figure out where You stand and then keep that stance. Otherwise if You are willing to give up some rights, You may as well give them all up. The ones You support lend credence to the ones you are willing to give up.

Let me simplify it for You....Get off the fence and get on one side or the other.....Have a nice day

[Soldier_Citizen]

Knock 'em off the fence Pete!!!

[Mohawk13]

It's coming down to that, or so it may seem......"You are either with us, Or against us"....sad time we live in when one has to make such distinctions...

[Soldier_Citizen]

It's coming down to that, or so it may seem......"You are either with us, Or against us"....sad time we live in when one has to make such distinctions...

Agreed!