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 Medicaid to stop covering some ER visits 
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Location: Olympia, WA
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Sent to me via email from member FZRider. His exact sarcastic words "This should work out great"..

From: The Daily Olympian
Quote:
Medicaid to stop covering visits to ER later deemed 'unnecessary'
Medicaid soon won’t cover emergency-room treatment that state officials decide afterward was “not medically necessary.”

A state Health Care Authority rule putting a three-visit limit on unnecessary ER use by poor patients was blocked in court on procedural grounds. The agency has replaced it with a new policy taking effect April 1 that would reduce the number of conditions deemed non-emergencies but would forbid even a single unnecessary visit.

The doctors and hospitals who sued over the old rule blasted the new plan Tuesday, saying it would leave it up to a “faceless bureaucrat” to decide what’s an emergency. They weren’t ready to say they’ll go to court again over it.

Medical providers will foot the bill if they treat patients and the state doesn’t pay. They can’t bill the patients, as was possible under the old rule, the Health Care Authority says.

“The client is not at risk anymore for the ER bills,” said Dr. Jeffery Thompson, chief of the state’s Medicaid program. “This is invisible to the client. The client’s going to get treatment regardless.”

The move is part of an ongoing attempt by state government to crack down on excessive ER use. Other kinds of treatment have such limits, Thompson says.

He points to patients seeking ER treatment for diaper rash and other ailments better treated by a primary-care doctor, and to hospital frequent fliers who show up twice a day, as he said one patient with obsessive-compulsive disorder did recently. The hope is to divert such patients to other providers.

Lawmakers cut $33 million out of the state budget by demanding tighter ER rules for Medicaid, but now the full cut is unlikely to be achieved by the end of the budget period on June 30, 2013. The HCA expects to be about million of dollars short of its savings target.

A judge ruled last year that the HCA hadn’t followed the correct rule-making process in establishing a three-visit limit on unnecessary ER use. But the federal Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services later said the agency was within its authority to deny coverage, Thompson said. The state proceeded with a flat ban after the feds saw the three-visit limit as “problematic.”

Read the rest: http://m.theolympian.com/olympian/db_10 ... ue#display


Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:08 am
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Government stupid in action again. The real problem is that so many people do not have a family doctor (there are not enough of them or they do not take patients with out real insurance), so people are forced to use the ER for everything. So rather that address the real problem, the government just screws everyone over................again.

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:13 am
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I work with Medicaid all day long, what it adds up to is if the ED allows the member to continue to abuse the system we refuse to pay the hospital. Simple, the problem with medicaid is the member knows they will NEVER be billed for service so they don't give a shit. I have members from Washington that just "pop up" in other states seeking treatment and want WA to pay (we usually do)!

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:44 am
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They abuse the system because the system is broke and the ones fixing it are the same morons that broke it in the first place. So the member has two choices, abuse the system or crawl into a corner and die. Which would you choose?

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:05 am
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If it is not an emergency, they don't need to be there and we should not be paying. The emergency room should be just that, the emergency room. It should be for trauma and life threatening illness. Instead it is clogged up with welfare recipients who have a common cold, the flu or a stomach ache because they ate too many ding dongs. They know they will not be turned away and they know someone else is getting stuck with the bill. I probably sound callous, I've seen it too many times. The parasites are killing the host.

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:30 am
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Many private practice doctors do no accept medicaid/medicare/tricare, etc because the reimbursements are so low, they do not cover minimal operating costs. If a doctor accepted a significant amount of government-funded insurance onto his case load, he would quickly go bankrupt, and many currently are right now. So the patient with medicaid uses the emergency room for non-emergency conditions, which is more expensive and clogs up that resource that real emergencies need. Denying non-emergency conditions at the ER is problematic in two ways: it relies on someone else to decide what classifies as a non-emergency for you, and two, it requires the patient to error on the side of caution to not go to the ER for a potentially serious condition, such as chest pain. And let's be realists, not everyone has basic medical knowledge to make that assessment. This law is like putting a band-aid on a heart attack.

I had a patient on DSHS yesterday with drug-seeking behavior, and I asked if he was currently working, he said no. Later in the treatment I asked how he was going to spend the rest of his day on such a beautiful sunny day?
"At the casino."
"How well do you do there?"
"I do pretty good"
"So do you do more winning than losing, or more losing than winning?"
"More losing than winning"
"Of course, that's why they're still in business"

I'd like to say someone living off the system who spends their day gambling your tax dollars away is not of the norm, but I'd be lying. When you have systems that enable dependency, you alter their behavior. Change their motivation and you change behavior.


Last edited by Wenis on Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:43 am
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Walt wrote:
If it is not an emergency, they don't need to be there and we should not be paying. The emergency room should be just that, the emergency room. It should be for trauma and life threatening illness. Instead it is clogged up with welfare recipients who have a common cold, the flu or a stomach ache because they ate too many ding dongs. They know they will not be turned away and they know someone else is getting stuck with the bill. I probably sound callous, I've seen it too many times. The parasites are killing the host.


You really don't get it do you? They have no other medical services available to them. Hence the emergency room is where they go. How if there were urgent care facilities, that would work, but again, the government is punishing the victims rather than addressing the real problem, lack of available medical care for the lower income members of our society. Oh and I have worked in EMS and the wife still does. I have seen why and you obviously don't really understand the problem.

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:44 am
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Bear 45/70 wrote:
Walt wrote:
If it is not an emergency, they don't need to be there and we should not be paying. The emergency room should be just that, the emergency room. It should be for trauma and life threatening illness. Instead it is clogged up with welfare recipients who have a common cold, the flu or a stomach ache because they ate too many ding dongs. They know they will not be turned away and they know someone else is getting stuck with the bill. I probably sound callous, I've seen it too many times. The parasites are killing the host.


You really don't get it do you? They have no other medical services available to them. Hence the emergency room is where they go. How if there were urgent care facilities, that would work, but again, the government is punishing the victims rather than addressing the real problem, lack of available medical care for the lower income members of our society. Oh and I have worked in EMS and the wife still does. I have seen why and you obviously don't really understand the problem.


Yep, I get it now. We have a society full of victims that the government is punishing. Thanks!!!

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:58 am
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I like how the Canadians with a smaller population base, and a smaller tax revenue base can offer up free health care to one and all for a fraction of what is spent here in the USA per person. But, the richest country in the history of the world - cannot. WTF is up with that? I would say that the priorities are all fucked up with an entrenched health care system only interested in feeding off the revenue, and not interested in letting go the profits thereof to address - health care. It isn't socialism, it is investing the wealth of the country into the citizens of the country. You get a better rate of return on that investment as compared to anything else, dollar for dollar.

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:09 pm
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Probably one of the reasons Canada can do this is because they have a much higher percentage of taxpayers than we do here in the US. Nearly 70 percent of Canadians pay taxes as opposed to around 50 percent here.

None of it is free though, here or there. It is being paid through taxes. Canada also has very high tax on alcohol and tobacco which helps support the health care system.

I am not for denying anyone health care that is necessary. When people are going to emergency room when they should be in bed, taking aspirin or just simply not eating so many ding dongs is where I have a problem with it.

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-- Sen. Barack Obama, March 16, 2006


Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:25 pm
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Hey, I'm with you on mooches. My point is that health care in Canada is still free for all citizens, but costs a fraction per person as compared to what the health care system costs tax payers down here. If you add up costs for Medicare, Medicaid, state, federal, and private insurance, things look pretty bad from a cost / benefit comparison, no matter where the money comes from. Nothing is for free, but a lot of money flows from tax payers to government, and gets pissed away with no benefit to the population at large. Cost per person is the big difference between us and them.

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:08 pm
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My only experience with Canada's health care system was a few years ago when we were traveling with some friends. My buddy's son managed to bury a fish hook in his finger while we were in Sydney. They charged him 700 USD to remove the hook which basically entailed pushing the barb through, cutting it and pulling it out each side. Same thing I told him we could do minus the anesthesia.

Two days later my wife fell and broke her foot in Nanaimo. After the fishhook incident, we were both too scared to deal with them and came back to the US for her treatment. Hell, after having paid 48 dollars for a case of Corona up there (which supports their healthcare) I felt like they should have fixed the foot for free.

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:21 pm
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RENCORP wrote:
Hey, I'm with you on mooches. My point is that health care in Canada is still free for all citizens, but costs a fraction per person as compared to what the health care system costs tax payers down here. If you add up costs for Medicare, Medicaid, state, federal, and private insurance, things look pretty bad from a cost / benefit comparison, no matter where the money comes from. Nothing is for free, but a lot of money flows from tax payers to government, and gets pissed away with no benefit to the population at large. Cost per person is the big difference between us and them.


I'd be alright with what we pay if we lived to 120 years or so.

Yeah, it costs heaps if you don't have insurance or aren't covered anywhere, whether it's Canada or here.


Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:34 pm
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Everyone has good points... This is part of the problem. This is a Huge bigger than most can comprehend.

Simple quick look at one point or another leads to arguments and bad feelings.

Yes there are folks that will abuse any system...

Comparing Canada - socialized medicine... Fine if you are not sick but talk to the folks that are... Waiting for simple treatments for months and even years...

For people not happy and think it's "greener" on the other side - I say move.

I worked in the ER for 5 years and you see everything... Not good. It burdens the system with somewhat healthy people coming in for very simple non emergent needs. But again there are folks that have no other means....

It's a catch 22.

What's one answer? Higher taxes? Ya - didn't think so.

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:05 pm
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I was kinda hoping to see wise leaders combine the best of both worlds to make for a really comprehensive full public health care system. Won't be holding my breath though. Until the health of individuals, and therefore the nation are more important than profit, I look at what we have as almost useless.

Why? Because it is a business, and if you can't pay, time to die. The costs of health care are astronomical, especially if you need specialized care, meds, surgery, damm near anything, even with insurance coverage, the co-pays can bankrupt the average individual.

Kinda like expecting to see a dime of Social Security when I retire. Nope, not gonna happen. So, it is up to me to be the " Physician, heal thyself " and do everything I can to stay fit and healthy. Also, to be working to support myself until the day I drop dead, because the state and the nation sure as hell won't.

Funnily enough, I am okay with that scenario. Knock on wood, every day.

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Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Give a man a fishing pole, and he will drink too much beer, get tangled in fish line, hook himself in the nose casting, fall overboard, and either drown, or, go home hungry and wet. Give a man a case of dynamite, and he will feed the whole town for a year!



BE ON NOTICE:
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Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:19 pm
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