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 Civilian Arrest 
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Well, never really did any research on this topic. Was pretty sure it’s like the Stand Your Ground and Good Samaritan common laws.

Found more than I had thought. So here’s some food for thought. Odd sources as one is from the DOL.

I pretty much knew about felonies but not misdemeanors and a district judge...






“Citizen Arrest in Washington State

Under Washington law, a private person can conduct a citizen’s arrest for a misdemeanor if the misdemeanor: (1) was committed in the citizen’s presence and (2) constituted a breach of the peace.
A person can also conduct a citizen’s arrest for felonies.”

https://www.dol.wa.gov/business/securit ... rrest1.pdf



Arrest—Offense committed in view of district judge.

When any offense is committed in view of any district judge, the judge may, by verbal direction to any deputy, or if no deputy is present, to any citizen, cause such deputy or citizen to arrest such offender, and keep such offender in custody for the space of one hour, unless such offender shall sooner be taken from such custody by virtue of a warrant issued on complaint on oath. But such person so arrested, shall not be confined in jail, nor put upon any trial, until arrested by virtue of such warrant.

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=10.04.020






As the web site says... Arrest for Misdemeanor (mainly in for shoplifting, etc) but it does cover your rights if the criminal act is done in front of you.
(see link) https://www.atg.wa.gov/ago-opinions/arr ... en-officer






Interesting viewpoint (fear of litigation)
https://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/2 ... ns-arrest/





State by State
http://solutions-institute.org/tools/ci ... -by-state/


Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:53 pm
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Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:05 pm
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Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:18 pm
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Does that mean I could have conducted a Citizens Arrest on the Pierce County officers who left the academy this afternoon, and were speeding their way back home through both Mason and Thurston counties?


Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:19 pm
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Wetpaperbag wrote:
Does that mean I could have conducted a Citizens Arrest on the Pierce County officers who left the academy this afternoon, and were speeding their way back home through both Mason and Thurston counties?

Or an officer serving an ex parte order to illegally seize my firearms without due process...?


Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:32 pm
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Guns4Liberty wrote:
Wetpaperbag wrote:
Does that mean I could have conducted a Citizens Arrest on the Pierce County officers who left the academy this afternoon, and were speeding their way back home through both Mason and Thurston counties?

Or an officer serving an ex parte order to illegally seize my firearms without due process...?

If you are referring to washington state's ERPO, then it IS ex parte, but it is not illegal, and is due process according to current law. Plan accordingly.
http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=7.94


Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:38 pm
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Attempting a citizen's arrest is all sorts of a bad idea. Risk/reward is terrible. Could go all sorts of sideways and turn violent. You might be looking at a lethal force case/requirement. You'd open yourself up to kidnapping allegations, civil lawsuits, wrongful arrest/detention, and so forth. Not good.

Best is to just be a good witness and report to cops. Take pictures, get descriptions, etc.

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Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:55 pm
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Here's my understanding, in WA.

Felony - Can arrest with reasonable suspicion.
Misdemeanor - Can arrest if the crime is observed and it's a breach of the peace.

Now, the advantage to bringing in an arrest can actually help you, IMO. For example, use of force may be otherwise unlawful. Ie if I beat up a guy breaking into my car = illegal. If I place him under arrest and he resists it's now 'reasonable force to effect an arrest'..You may also detain someone that's on your property...


(RCW 9A.16.020)
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RCW 9A.16.020
Use of force—When lawful.
The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:
(1) Whenever necessarily used by a public officer in the performance of a legal duty, or a person assisting the officer and acting under the officer's direction;
(2) Whenever necessarily used by a person arresting one who has committed a felony and delivering him or her to a public officer competent to receive him or her into custody;
(3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;
(4) Whenever reasonably used by a person to detain someone who enters or remains unlawfully in a building or on real property lawfully in the possession of such person, so long as such detention is reasonable in duration and manner to investigate the reason for the detained person's presence on the premises, and so long as the premises in question did not reasonably appear to be intended to be open to members of the public;
(5) Whenever used by a carrier of passengers or the carrier's authorized agent or servant, or other person assisting them at their request in expelling from a carriage, railway car, vessel, or other vehicle, a passenger who refuses to obey a lawful and reasonable regulation prescribed for the conduct of passengers, if such vehicle has first been stopped and the force used is not more than is necessary to expel the offender with reasonable regard to the offender's personal safety;
(6) Whenever used by any person to prevent a mentally ill, mentally incompetent, or mentally disabled person from committing an act dangerous to any person, or in enforcing necessary restraint for the protection or restoration to health of the person, during such period only as is necessary to obtain legal authority for the restraint or custody of the person.



.....and them resisting the arrest is a felony in of itself....

(RCW 9A.36.031)
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RCW 9A.36.031
Assault in the third degree.
(1) A person is guilty of assault in the third degree if he or she, under circumstances not amounting to assault in the first or second degree:
(a) With intent to prevent or resist the execution of any lawful process or mandate of any court officer or the lawful apprehension or detention of himself, herself, or another person, assaults another; or
(b) Assaults a person employed as a transit operator or driver, the immediate supervisor of a transit operator or driver, a mechanic, or a security officer, by a public or private transit company or a contracted transit service provider, while that person is performing his or her official duties at the time of the assault; or
(c) Assaults a school bus driver, the immediate supervisor of a driver, a mechanic, or a security officer, employed by a school district transportation service or a private company under contract for transportation services with a school district, while the person is performing his or her official duties at the time of the assault; or
(d) With criminal negligence, causes bodily harm to another person by means of a weapon or other instrument or thing likely to produce bodily harm; or
(e) Assaults a firefighter or other employee of a fire department, county fire marshal's office, county fire prevention bureau, or fire protection district who was performing his or her official duties at the time of the assault; or
(f) With criminal negligence, causes bodily harm accompanied by substantial pain that extends for a period sufficient to cause considerable suffering; or
(g) Assaults a law enforcement officer or other employee of a law enforcement agency who was performing his or her official duties at the time of the assault; or
(h) Assaults a peace officer with a projectile stun gun; or
(i) Assaults a nurse, physician, or health care provider who was performing his or her nursing or health care duties at the time of the assault. For purposes of this subsection: "Nurse" means a person licensed under chapter 18.79 RCW; "physician" means a person licensed under chapter 18.57 or 18.71 RCW; and "health care provider" means a person certified under chapter 18.71 or 18.73 RCW who performs emergency medical services or a person regulated under Title 18 RCW and employed by, or contracting with, a hospital licensed under chapter 70.41 RCW; or
(j) Assaults a judicial officer, court-related employee, county clerk, or county clerk's employee, while that person is performing his or her official duties at the time of the assault or as a result of that person's employment within the judicial system. For purposes of this subsection, "court-related employee" includes bailiffs, court reporters, judicial assistants, court managers, court managers' employees, and any other employee, regardless of title, who is engaged in equivalent functions; or
(k) Assaults a person located in a courtroom, jury room, judge's chamber, or any waiting area or corridor immediately adjacent to a courtroom, jury room, or judge's chamber. This section shall apply only: (i) During the times when a courtroom, jury room, or judge's chamber is being used for judicial purposes during court proceedings; and (ii) if signage was posted in compliance with RCW 2.28.200 at the time of the assault.
(2) Assault in the third degree is a class C felony.
.

You need to be very careful though, as if they plea bargain down to a misdemeanor, you could lose any of the tiny legal protection you have... In addition, threatening to arrest someone can be a felony in of itself....

(RCW 9A.36.070)
Spoiler: show
Quote:
Coercion.
(1) A person is guilty of coercion if by use of a threat he or she compels or induces a person to engage in conduct which the latter has a legal right to abstain from, or to abstain from conduct which he or she has a legal right to engage in.
(2) "Threat" as used in this section means:
(a) To communicate, directly or indirectly, the intent immediately to use force against any person who is present at the time; or
(b) Threats as defined in *RCW 9A.04.110(27) (a), (b), or (c).
(3) Coercion is a gross misdemeanor.

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Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:27 pm
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You all realize that we basically had all watched the basics of a civilian recently step in after a stabbing in Seattle Center.

He was detaining and holding off the stabber until police came.


Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:05 am
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oldkim wrote:
You all realize that we basically had all watched the basics of a civilian recently step in after a stabbing in Seattle Center.

He was detaining and holding off the stabber until police came.


I wouldn't consider that detaining.... Distracting yes, detaining, no.


Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:17 am
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He wasn’t free to leave. That is the definition of detain.

Yes, the stabber wasn’t restrained, tackled, handcuffed and shown a conceal carry badge but for the vast situations in a populated area where police response is 5-10 min. Restraining someone is a losing venture.

But the civilian did right by whatever you want to call it but the stabber wasn’t free to leave.


Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:22 am
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WHAT IF....
Guy with knife turned around and started walking in a different direction.
Guy with knife dropped it and took off running.
Guy with knife dropped it and charged armed GG.
:popcorn:

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Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:53 am
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AR15L wrote:
WHAT IF....
Guy with knife turned around and started walking in a different direction.
Guy with knife dropped it and took off running.
Guy with knife dropped it and charged armed GG.
:popcorn:

Bad things would ensue. Good guy didn't look ready to use his firearm. Not trying to armchair quarterback him, but I think he got really lucky it played out as well as it did.


Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:07 am
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Lots of what if....


Yes it’s clear that the civilian didn’t expect the stabber not to listen. Most likely thought the stabber would lay down and give up OR fight and become a threat to self or others.

The gray area is the key piece to any self defense/civilian arrest/involvement situation.

Change one piece can literally mean life or death.

It really falls into what one knows at the time.
You can’t predict the future.

So these events are good to learn from. In the end this was the right progression with the events that happen at the time. No one else was harmed, good guy did okay.


For those playing the what if game... simply factor things like he’s fleeing but yelling he’s going to kill others or starts stabbing others with his back turned. Being aware of what is standing “back stop” and always the possibility there may be more than one BG.

Distance, cover and fields of view (this was outside - but change that to hallway can change things).


Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:30 am
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Sometimes there is a point at which mace/pepperspray/tazer is more useful than a firearm.

There is often the need to detain or put someone down, but not kill/maim them.


Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:52 am
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