WaGuns.org

This is a thread for some serious thinking. If you are looking for a 10 second “funny bite”, move on. It’s not here. I’m seeking some outside thinking or thoughts for our long-term Second Amendment Beliefs.

I don’t like Leonard Potts. Not at all. But I sometimes do read his columns to get a bead on what the “Other Side” is thinking. But his “We The People”, and a duly elected and constituted government, comments ring true.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2015/04/1 ... is-us.html

This article below also really bothered me.

http://projects.kansascity.com/2015/dom ... y/18859890

I wonder if we are promoting ourselves the wrong way. Like the following:

Bumper Sticker: “You can take my guns, after prying my cold dead hands” and other variations.

Bumper Sticker: “Don’t tread on me”

Public Rally’s where things get out of control like the boobs that had the upraised rifle in the Senate Gallery Chambers. That was a plug for gun control, not 2A rights.

Or even the incidents in the second link.

Perhaps we should be doing this:

Bumper Sticker: “I use tools to protect my family”

Bumper Sticker: “Ask me why I like to shoot competitively”

I applaud heartily those few threads here lately, where a 2A friend took a friend out to the range and showed them the fun or enjoyment out of the shooting sports. More of this should be in done in my opinion. “Take a friend shooting”

Efforts like the resident Historian did, to educate the Olympia Police Department on “Open Carry”, doing it patiently and with conviction.

What if places like Paul Bunyan, Tacoma Sportmans Club, or even the Marksman (ALL on busy thoroughfares) sponsored “Public is invited, Free shooting today only” using 22 rifles? How many converts would we pick up this way? Without screaming or yelling about our “Natural Rights?” We all could help with this…….. One on one instruction, keeping very close tabs on things…… Help with the expenses…..

The point is…………….. Our 2A rights are under attack, among other things. We need to improvise on educating the public. We need to convert people one at a time. One on one. Without the media involved to edit out the good things we say.

Only by doing this, can we also point towards self-reliance, personal responsibility, away from Nanny Governments, away from losing all of our rights even more, perhaps by educating with the Bill of Rights.

Just my .02 for today.

Yes. This.

The scared anti government, they are coming for our guns, it's just like Nazi Germany fear mongering plays well to the scared paranoid crowd, but not so well to the rest of the world.

An Oly cop asked me why I carried a gun. I told him because I couldn't put a cop in my pocket. He laughed and conceded my point. You think if I had gone off on a Gavin Seim or similar rant it would have been as well received? We are our own worst enemies and provide most of our own negative talking points.

I don't have any such stickers on my vehicle, nor do I own any clothing of similar statements.

Not because I am afraid of looking like a gun nut ready for the goveement to come take my guns so I can go out in a pile of empty brass, but rather I don't want to make myself a target to people who like to "aquire" guns illegally, and things like that says "follow me home so you know where the guns are".


Asshats like that slimeball Gavin make us look bad.

I don't get into arguments with people over me carrying a gun, generally though I've had really pleasant conversations with people over my pistols.

Yes one of my biggest fears is that the government will indeed try and take our guns, not tmrw, not next week, but in the not so distant future.

Then the question comes down to will you stand for freedom, and for our second amendment rights or will you hand over your guns like good little subjects?

I know my line in the sand. And I know what I will do if the time comes and I'm still kicking and screaming.

I would direct you to the thread about the antigunners hiring a marketing firm, and how they tweaked the wording of the AG movement.
We need to do the same thing.
And we desperately need for everyone to carry the same message.
The AG crowd has gone out of its way to carry the same message to the masses over and over again.
In politics, it you say it enough times, it does in fact become true.

Why do you carry a gun?...we have police.
Well when I can carry police officer, I'll stop carrying a gun.
Use your cell phone...
Cell phones only alert the cops to my need for them to come stop a crime...making a call does nothing to stop the crime from continuing. And if that crime is a threat to my safety...I'm still in danger.

I hate to say it, but we have to make politically correct terms for the AG...much like they like to make PC terms for us...you change the language, you change the way people think.

I don't however support the idea of giving in to their terms. It sickens me that, "the Right to keep and bear arms", has been marginalized to be about hunting and shooting sports.
2A is about personal safety, and protection - and having an option available if those to thing are under immediate threat.

I remember when the OC movement was taking off about eight years ago in this state, a number of us made a point of dressing nicely when OCing, etc... fast forward to now, and if you suggest not showing up at a protest wearing cammies and looking like you crawled out of your bunker, people jump all over you for hating freedom, etc...

As it is now, even when contacting legislators, a lot of people go into long winded rants about tyranny, Nazis, or whatever.

The freaked out days post GCA 68 and the internal revolt that shook up the NRA are over. We DO NOT need to keep using the same tired, and scared language. 594 is not like Nazi Germany. In fact, quit fucking talking about Nazi Germany. Or genocide. Or Soviet Russia. Or Communist China. You sound fucking stupid when you do. Stop ranting about tyranny. Oddly enough, the only people tyrannized in this country over gun control have been minorities. White ass bubba here with his AR slung over his shoulder looking like Duck Dynasty boy was the same group doing the oppressing. Find a better line. And put on clean clothes that aren't cammies.

Put away the goddamned bibles. Seriously, you can't get a group of pro gun people together, without SOMEBODY pulling out a Bible and praying or some dumb ass shit like that. Read your fucking holy book and do that crap in private like Jebus said. Gun rights are not something that needs a religious theme. In fact, that's a turn off. Go be white dude for AR 15 Jesus somewhere else.

Put away the Gasden Flag. It's too connected with the Tea Party, which is too connected with angry out of touch bubbas who got scared when a black president was elected? Accurate? Eh to a point. But that's not the point. That's the perception. So don't feed it.

Quit ranting about the last line of defense against an oppressive government, etc... Most Americans wouldn't know one if it bit them in the ass, and most white Americans sure as hell won't. Outsiders won't take this seriously from most gun owners. ProTip(TM) if you belong to the dominant socio-economic class in this country (White, straight, judeo-christian) STFU. Nobody is tyrannizing you and outsiders will laugh and make jokes.

Seriously. Cut the NRA/JPFO/Tinfoil/Militia/Whatever shit. Agenda 21, The UN, Sharia Law, Tyranny, Nazis, what the goddamned fuck ever. It plays well in Peoria, but not in the real world. We've got our own internalized subculture that believes some fucking insane shit. Go be insane somewhere else and leave guns out of it.

You want positive press? Be positive. Use words/terms/ideas that people outside of the gun community can understand. We don't have EBR's because it's the last line of defense against tyranny. Quite frankly, that's a dumbshit line anyway, as again, outside of a few literally persecuted minority groups in this country, the fantasy of fighting for freedom 1775 style ain't happening short of a breakdown of civil society. And that doesn't happen all that often either, and then it's just localized. We have EBR's the same reason why people own controversial books or films. Because it's our right, and it's enjoyable.

Why yes, I do keep a gun at home for self defense. Isn't it great we live in a world where we can expect rapid police response to an emergency call, and isn't it even better we live in a world where we have a fighting chance at establishing our own destiny while waiting for the police to show up? Why yes I do carry a gun. And all sorts of other things. I may not need it ever, but isn't it great we live in a world where you have the RIGHT and the CHOICE to DECIDE FOR YOURSELF if you wish to carry a weapon against the horrible chance you may need it? Why yes, I do have EBR's and weird scary looking guns. Look at this, the AR-15 is a design based on 1950's technology, and is a reliable and fun sport shooter, hunting weapon, and all around utilitarian rifle. You might say it's the modern Winchester. Would you like to shoot a few rounds with me?

Why yes, I am concerned about knee jerk legislation and attempts to restrict firearms. You see, not only does the state constitution clearly spell it out, but the Supreme Court has held several times that the ownership of firearms is a clearly defined right and protected as such. The government and misguided people are constantly attacking freedoms and unpopular ideals and rights, I want to support my right to keep and bear arms, as much as I want to support my right to read unpopular books, or peacefully protest.

Things not to talk about. Immigration. Gay Marriage. State's Rights. The need to be armed against an overpowering government (If that shit really mattered, the day after Kent State would have been a blood bath of angry citizens attacking the government, and every time a cop shot a person without good cause, there would be armed standoffs at police stations).

Tl;Dr version. Be polite. Be professional. Be nice. Be intelligent. Use words/ideas/images that are universal and easily understandable. Leave the tinfoil at home. Our subculture is weird and fucked up sometimes. Go be weird and fucked up somewhere else, and take your religion with you. Leave the cammies and mall ninja gear at home. Don't finger fuck your weapon. In fact, leave the longarm at home. It's scary, and feeds stereotypes. No, you are not being tyrannized unless you are Native, Black or Japanese circa 1941. No, 594 is not just like Nazi Germany, and for fucks sake, drop the murdering dictator line.

Do this and you'll make more pro gunners.

:applause:

H2obouget wrote:I would direct you to the thread about the antigunners hiring a marketing firm, and how they tweaked the wording of the AG movement.
We need to do the same thing.

I work cheap. Just sayin'.

H2obouget wrote:I would direct you to the thread about the antigunners hiring a marketing firm, and how they tweaked the wording of the AG movement.
We need to do the same thing.
And we desperately need for everyone to carry the same message.
The AG crowd has gone out of its way to carry the same message to the masses over and over again.
In politics, it you say it enough times, it does in fact become true.

Why do you carry a gun?...we have police.
Well when I can carry police officer, I'll stop carrying a gun.
Use your cell phone...
Cell phones only alert the cops to my need for them to come stop a crime...making a call does nothing to stop the crime from continuing. And if that crime is a threat to my safety...I'm still in danger.

I hate to say it, but we have to make politically correct terms for the AG...much like they like to make PC terms for us...you change the language, you change the way people think.

I don't however support the idea of giving in to their terms. It sickens me that, "the Right to keep and bear arms", has been marginalized to be about hunting and shooting sports.
2A is about personal safety, and protection - and having an option available if those to thing are under immediate threat.

^well water carrier, i've got a better response to the one i bolded:
Use your cellphone...
well a "thug" held me up at gun point and took the cellphone, then shot me afterwards
yes i'm kind of playing to "their logic", however the anti-gun folks don't quite understand that a certain "group void of ethics/morals" in this once fine country, promote a "culture of violence, ect." are the biggest contributors to the "gun violence epidemic", see we don't have a "gun problem" in this country we have a "accountability" and a "irrational emotions over facts/logic" problem in this country.
edit: i would also like to add that, doesn't it seem odd that the same "anti-guns" folks seem AOK with the "gangsta/thug life culture"(well that was the "culture" i was refering to, and their "enablers") that i mentioned?

I've been thinking the same thing, most slogans and banners present a far too agressive image.

kf7mjf wrote:

H2obouget wrote:I would direct you to the thread about the antigunners hiring a marketing firm, and how they tweaked the wording of the AG movement.
We need to do the same thing.

I work cheap. Just sayin'.

I infer from this statement that you, as a supporter of 2A, want to be paid to write-up suggestions for newer language and terms.
To this I say, "Read the title of the thread."

“I deem it the duty of every man to devote a certain portion of his income for charitable purposes;
and that it is his further duty to see it so applied and to do the most good for which it is capable.”
-Thomas Jefferson

Since you seek to make your income through writing, why not write as a charitable donation to the support of 2A?
Maybe it would help to think of it this way, From Each According to Their Abilities, to Each According to Their Needs.

What I am saying is if somebody wanted to develop some professionally written pro 2a materials, my costs are lower than if it was a common commercial job.

Do you invite bands to play at your events for free in order to get exposure too? Your Marxism crack simply makes no sense,unless you adhere to the typical right wing line of anyone who doesn't agree 100% is a lefty

kf7mjf wrote:
Do you invite bands to play at your events for free in order to get exposure too?

If they are no name bands, that needed exposure to a greater audience to increase their popularity and fan base... Yep I sure would.
It's a fundamental part of capitalism...."The first ones free."

This serves to further illustrate why the left has an edge over the right in social dynamics.
The left is all about "We"...."that person did this so that WE could get ahead.", "What can We do to make a change?"
The right is all about "Me"..."How does this benefit ME?", "What do I have to do to make a change?"
A group of 100 people, working toward a goal, is stronger than 100 people in a group, working toward a goal.

Until we all start stepping forward to do what we can to support the cause, we will continue to lag behind.

That's what demo tapes are for. Email me at my user name at gmail if you want to see samples of my commercial work.

See the first post pointing out how the antis worked with a professional to shape their message. I'm half ass working on a guide on how not to be a dumbass gun owner which I will give to entitlement minded cheapskates who think work should be free (do you ask a plumber to fix your first broken pipe free?) But you are making a lot out of an off the cuff joke.

kf7mjf wrote:What I am saying is if somebody wanted to develop some professionally written pro 2a materials, my costs are lower than if it was a common commercial job.

Do you invite bands to play at your events for free in order to get exposure too? Your Marxism crack simply makes no sense,unless you adhere to the typical right wing line of anyone who doesn't agree 100% is a lefty

For what it's worth, your donated writing to the SAF or CCRKBA is tax deductible.

And I think there was a WaGunner who recently wrote up some OC literature and was only taking donations / pre ordered for prints.

Soldier Citizen:

I don't advertise either. I was just using examples for those that DO have the gumption to wear shirts and bumper stickers. Like you, I have a line in the sand as well. Things are changing. Some good, some bad.

I'm just trying to see about some proactive ideas that people can rally around, preventing the need to cross the line of sand.

kf7mjf:

Your points about being rational, positive, and I add.... calm, is very real. Nobody wants to listen to histronics. I learned that early on, with my recent fight with Pierce County regarding customer access. Testifying in fount of people can be unnerving. Emotions needs to stay out of it. One can be passionate without emotions.

h2obouget:

Good statement. I'll turn it back on you. Whats it worth to you for your 2A rights, specifically? Are you willing to work for it? As an example, I helped gave away 2 nice pistols in the 594 raffle. (I didn't have any cash to give, but giving those, brought GREAT unexpected results.) An effort can take all shapes and forms.

edogg, and others:

Speaking of SAF or CCRKBA....... They fight alot, do lawsuits, and file appeals......

Just wondering, do these people do any promotion at all? or is it all about fighting? Educate me here.

Didn't the NRA have a program promoting the shooting sports?