WaGuns.org

bhpdrew wrote:What if you have a 1932 Ford pick up which they don't supply parts for?
(My case)

Same with my 78 pickup - safe by virtue of no electronics, bone yards full of parts trucks, and a thriving after market parts industry.

My last fuel pump replacement was from NAPA - $23.00 for the pump, 20 minutes with some wrenches and a screwdriver outa my day, done.

Fuck modern auto tech.

Massivedesign wrote:

Truth right there. Fuck you automakers, for thinking you get to sell me a machine but only license the code that runs the machine. And people wonder why I drive a 1984 diesel pickup. Because I can start it with a goddamn paperclip and it doesn't have a brain, cellular communication, or a GPS. That's why.

Sounds very similar to sopa/pipa. That got beat fast. The secret is, don't buy new cars.

Most of comes down to the epa wanting manufactures to make it so emissions can't be fucked with. Been going on for years. There's a couple of acts that prevents manufacturers from preventing but some idiots are ruining it for general public.
It's really come to the front line in the past four or five years with diesel trucks and modding to make copious amounts of unburnt fuel smoke come out the tail pipe and the so called tuner crowd that will pour in loads of fuel when they flip the switch for the funny gas when leave a stop light.
As it stands, there's to many companies that can change parameters and programming to do these things and no pcm is safe from a hack.
Add on the proprietary software for any number of inner workings and operations that in some cases can cause real safety issues if not done right, it is downright scary.
Add in the freedom of invention and free market.......

There's more to it. They will not prevent you from changing your own oil or other maintenance stuff. It's already illegal to make changes to emission systems but, it's legal to purchase certain items that you can't use. Yet, we have to work with CARB compliance regulations etc.

I've seen many backyard fucked up repair jobs. I believe there should be some law against working on a brake system, suspension and emission related items.
I'm sure there's more people that fuck up a brake job in the driveway, than those that do it right. Would be no different than to give a twelve year old a written instruction sheet and have him put together a landing gear on a plane.

Everyone wants the government out of our life, I agree. Yet, when the fucktard did some inbred half drunken brake job and rearends your ass because he couldn't stop just soon enough and you're now fucked up, outta work and wifey left because your a broke dick and poor. Will you still think it's ok to allow stupid people to breed and fix shit?

Older vehicles that Joe dipshit buys some oversized carb for his 70's ride and completely throws off his vacuum and stoichiometry. Sure, the pile now spews excessive exhaust but only hurting the air somewhat. But, now his vacuum power assist brakes have less power assist. No biggy as he can run out and buy an ele vac pump and chamber to stick on there to help, no can't do that as it's no longer a valuable stock collector car with an oversized $400 run of the mill mis matched carb...

Lest not forget resale. I have software that I can change mileage on computer controlled instrument clusters and on board computers. How would you feel if I sold you a vehicle that I rolled back the mileage 100k? Or, I had changed fuel metering, valve timing and ignition parameters and then ran the living shit out of the dirty bitch it for a year playing road racer whore to only set it back to stock, and sell it to you as a lightly used vehicle? You won't know, until something breaks sooner than it should have or the squirrels start making bad noises.

Yes, I work on vehicles, yes I have the equipment to do things to on board computers for a couple manufacturers, yes I have the knowledge, understand it all, how to make more hp, know where to look for fuel mapping etc etc etc, at a cost on one end or the other. Surprisingly, stock works pretty damn good on newer vehicles now a days.
No, I will not change or work on yours, my licenses and subscriptions are too valuable to piss out the window.

STED9R wrote:Most of comes down to the epa wanting manufactures to make it so emissions can't be fucked with. Been going on for years. There's a couple of acts that prevents manufacturers from preventing but some idiots are ruining it for general public.
It's really come to the front line in the past four or five years with diesel trucks and modding to make copious amounts of unburnt fuel smoke come out the tail pipe and the so called tuner crowd that will pour in loads of fuel when they flip the switch for the funny gas when leave a stop light.
As it stands, there's to many companies that can change parameters and programming to do these things and no pcm is safe from a hack.
Add on the proprietary software for any number of inner workings and operations that in some cases can cause real safety issues if not done right, it is downright scary.
Add in the freedom of invention and free market.......

There's more to it. They will not prevent you from changing your own oil or other maintenance stuff. It's already illegal to make changes to emission systems but, it's legal to purchase certain items that you can't use. Yet, we have to work with CARB compliance regulations etc.

I've seen many backyard fucked up repair jobs. I believe there should be some law against working on a brake system, suspension and emission related items.
I'm sure there's more people that fuck up a brake job in the driveway, than those that do it right. Would be no different than to give a twelve year old a written instruction sheet and have him put together a landing gear on a plane.

Everyone wants the government out of our life, I agree. Yet, when the fucktard did some inbred half drunken brake job and rearends your ass because he couldn't stop just soon enough and you're now fucked up, outta work and wifey left because your a broke dick and poor. Will you still think it's ok to allow stupid people to breed and fix shit?

Older vehicles that Joe dipshit buys some oversized carb for his 70's ride and completely throws off his vacuum and stoichiometry. Sure, the pile now spews excessive exhaust but only hurting the air somewhat. But, now his vacuum power assist brakes have less power assist. No biggy as he can run out and buy an ele vac pump and chamber to stick on there to help, no can't do that as it's no longer a valuable stock collector car with an oversized $400 run of the mill mis matched carb...

Lest not forget resale. I have software that I can change mileage on computer controlled instrument clusters and on board computers. How would you feel if I sold you a vehicle that I rolled back the mileage 100k? Or, I had changed fuel metering, valve timing and ignition parameters and then ran the living shit out of the dirty bitch it for a year playing road racer whore to only set it back to stock, and sell it to you as a lightly used vehicle? You won't know, until something breaks sooner than it should have or the squirrels start making bad noises.

Yes, I work on vehicles, yes I have the equipment to do things to on board computers for a couple manufacturers, yes I have the knowledge, understand it all, how to make more hp, know where to look for fuel mapping etc etc etc, at a cost on one end or the other. Surprisingly, stock works pretty damn good on newer vehicles now a days.
No, I will not change or work on yours, my licenses and subscriptions are too valuable to piss out the window.

I have no mechanical training but i swapped my brakes on an armada with new discs and pads. ...

I get your point, but don't agree completely

STED9R wrote:I've seen many backyard fucked up repair jobs. I believe there should be some law against working on a brake system, suspension and emission related items. I'm sure there's more people that fuck up a brake job in the driveway, than those that do it right. Would be no different than to give a twelve year old a written instruction sheet and have him put together a landing gear on a plane.

I have to laugh. I work in General Aviation. I work on all those small planes that fly around. This happens alot more than you think. I see this stuff on a (at least) weekly basis. There ARE laws that says unlicensed people should NOT do the work that's being done. Just like 594.... it doesn't work.

But unlike cars.... planes can't pull over when things go wrong. Talk about stress.

STED9R wrote:Everyone wants the government out of our life, I agree. Yet, when the fucktard did some inbred half drunken brake job and rearends your ass because he couldn't stop just soon enough and you're now fucked up, outta work and wifey left because your a broke dick and poor. Will you still think it's ok to allow stupid people to breed and fix shit?

Every day, there is a risk of getting out of bed. Life is not fair. It sucks sometimes. That being said... Yes, I want the Guvmint to get the fuck out of my life. No I don't want laws governing everything, like you seem to want. I accept that things are sometimes out of my control, but I refuse to sit and cower in my living room, and suck my thumb. I am a believer in personal responsibility, and I go far beyond that.

STED9R wrote:Yes, I work on vehicles, yes I have the equipment to do things to on board computers for a couple manufacturers, yes I have the knowledge, understand it all, how to make more hp, know where to look for fuel mapping etc etc etc, at a cost on one end or the other. Surprisingly, stock works pretty damn good on newer vehicles now a days.
No, I will not change or work on yours, my licenses and subscriptions are too valuable to piss out the window.

Likewise, I am becoming the "Soup Nazi" in my line of work. We are starting to refuse service more now than ever before in my 27 years of owning my business. Likewise, when I feel like I'm getting ripped off.... I tell them, and if it's not fixed or explained to my satisfaction, I take my business elsewhere.

You hit several sore points. It's a pretty good rant. A few more "Fucks", I'd have given you a 9 or 10. Been dealing with this for years. Get used to it. Let it go. You'll feel better.

bhpdrew wrote:What if you have a 1932 Ford pick up which they don't supply parts for?
(My case)

JC Whitney or Warshawsky co.

Look at the shut they're still making. Its pretty obvious they're a bit on the clueless side.

I think we have Apple to blame for this one. But they eventually lost in court.


Sent from my UAV using Disposition Matrix 2.0

Auto makers have been trying for half a century or more to lock out the "other guy" when it comes to service and repairs.

First they restricted service manuals. When the first "computers" were added, no information was released and you had to steal it from a Dealership.

Some manufacturers even restricted some parts, claiming patent or copyright privilege. Eventually that practice was ended by the government.

The real cure is to not make it illegal to work on your own vehicle, just illegal to operate it on the highway with mod's that circumvent the emissions controls. There are several methods of monitoring this on the market now and some are as simple as detecting excessive emissions as you drive by. "Click" and a picture is taken soon to turn into an "invite" to have your vehicle inspected at an "Emissions Testing" station.


The last vehicle I purchased came with more HP and performance than I need (way more to be exact) and hasn't seen a down day in the shop for over 11 years. Can't see the attraction in messing with something just to make more noise, smoke, etc, and often not much more, at the expense of reliability and longevity.

danoh wrote:

STED9R wrote:You hit several sore points. It's a pretty good rant. A few more "Fucks", I'd have given you a 9 or 10. Been dealing with this for years. Get used to it. Let it go. You'll feel better.

Shit, wasn't ranting, let alone on a roll!
Been doing this shit since the late seventies. I've been that inbred drunk fucktard that did shit on the cheap and half assed in my much younger days. Been on the receiving end of someone else's fucked up work also.

It's all good, and all bad. Technology is slowly leaving idiots behind and eventually the inept won't be able to even change a tire anymore. And the old school autos, still around, will cost more than they can sell in meth in a year. Sadly, with all the shit I've seen, I don't see that as a bad thing, at all.

I'm NOT at all for more regs. Yet I also see how regs and gov intervention can keep the idiots in check. Fucked over sideways as it is, the differential between smart and stupid grows and the decent people that do right and just want to be left alone to work and pay taxes, gets fucked over dry.

I honestly do believe that emission controls need to be locked down. Not that truly believe it helps as a whole, just some reasoning that I have.

We're not going to be told we can't work on our cars, will never ever happen, so take the foil and put it back on the leftovers.

The plans have been in motion for years now to lock down the abilities to modify emissions. It's just that it has been gaining momentum due to a few that take it to far.
Emissions are fed regulated. Many states have additional laws. Regardless, one can buy some plug and play item to defeat that or, if you're good you do it yourself. That's where the problem lies. Unless there is a new law or way that can lock down items that are electronically controlled, purpose will always be defeated and emissions will be for those that follows the law.

But, I also believe that insurance should be required, and that everyone on the road should have a valid drivers license.
Yep, been on receiving end of one that had neither...... that law works so fucking well, doesn't it.

And, let's add on speed control. Is it necessary to do 130 mph in a 8klb truck on I-90? Fun yes, no doubt. But plain stupid. Yet, many turn the limiter off to do so in a vehicle that is now operating so far out of its design limits, that its safer to give a monkey a loaded AK-47 with the safety off.
Warranty work you say?????? If I build an engine, and limit items so the curve won't turn the basement(oil pan) into a container to hold 80 lbs of scrap steel, to only have you defeat that, why should I buy you a new motor when you destroyed it by means of defeating my limits? Won't, but then you get on websites and verbally trash my motors and my company. Or, turns into a big accident killing people, that we're now sitting with various agencies looking at both of us, and I've got the monies for good lawyer's.

No win people, don't be stupid.......

STED9R wrote:Most of comes down to the epa wanting manufactures to make it so emissions can't be fucked with. Been going on for years. There's a couple of acts that prevents manufacturers from preventing but some idiots are ruining it for general public.
It's really come to the front line in the past four or five years with diesel trucks and modding to make copious amounts of unburnt fuel smoke come out the tail pipe and the so called tuner crowd that will pour in loads of fuel when they flip the switch for the funny gas when leave a stop light.
As it stands, there's to many companies that can change parameters and programming to do these things and no pcm is safe from a hack.
Add on the proprietary software for any number of inner workings and operations that in some cases can cause real safety issues if not done right, it is downright scary.
Add in the freedom of invention and free market.......

There's more to it. They will not prevent you from changing your own oil or other maintenance stuff. It's already illegal to make changes to emission systems but, it's legal to purchase certain items that you can't use. Yet, we have to work with CARB compliance regulations etc.

I've seen many backyard fucked up repair jobs. I believe there should be some law against working on a brake system, suspension and emission related items.
I'm sure there's more people that fuck up a brake job in the driveway, than those that do it right. Would be no different than to give a twelve year old a written instruction sheet and have him put together a landing gear on a plane.

Everyone wants the government out of our life, I agree. Yet, when the fucktard did some inbred half drunken brake job and rearends your ass because he couldn't stop just soon enough and you're now fucked up, outta work and wifey left because your a broke dick and poor. Will you still think it's ok to allow stupid people to breed and fix shit?

Older vehicles that Joe dipshit buys some oversized carb for his 70's ride and completely throws off his vacuum and stoichiometry. Sure, the pile now spews excessive exhaust but only hurting the air somewhat. But, now his vacuum power assist brakes have less power assist. No biggy as he can run out and buy an ele vac pump and chamber to stick on there to help, no can't do that as it's no longer a valuable stock collector car with an oversized $400 run of the mill mis matched carb...

Lest not forget resale. I have software that I can change mileage on computer controlled instrument clusters and on board computers. How would you feel if I sold you a vehicle that I rolled back the mileage 100k? Or, I had changed fuel metering, valve timing and ignition parameters and then ran the living shit out of the dirty bitch it for a year playing road racer whore to only set it back to stock, and sell it to you as a lightly used vehicle? You won't know, until something breaks sooner than it should have or the squirrels start making bad noises.

Yes, I work on vehicles, yes I have the equipment to do things to on board computers for a couple manufacturers, yes I have the knowledge, understand it all, how to make more hp, know where to look for fuel mapping etc etc etc, at a cost on one end or the other. Surprisingly, stock works pretty damn good on newer vehicles now a days.
No, I will not change or work on yours, my licenses and subscriptions are too valuable to piss out the window.

That is a slippery slope logical fallacy. We are NOT 12 year olds. We are adult American citizens. If we decide we can do a brake job safely and are incorrect, it is no different than deciding we are sober enough to drive and being incorrect. The consequences of both are dire, and guilty parties should be held accountable for their actions in both cases.
The day we don't have the freedom to decide if we are ok to drive, or if we want to change our own brakes is the day Mr Orwell foretold in 1984. Personal responsibility is part of the freedom that our founding fathers fought for, and our dads and brothers are/have died to protect.

YukonRob wrote:

STED9R wrote:Most of comes down to the epa wanting manufactures to make it so emissions can't be fucked with. Been going on for years. There's a couple of acts that prevents manufacturers from preventing but some idiots are ruining it for general public.
It's really come to the front line in the past four or five years with diesel trucks and modding to make copious amounts of unburnt fuel smoke come out the tail pipe and the so called tuner crowd that will pour in loads of fuel when they flip the switch for the funny gas when leave a stop light.
As it stands, there's to many companies that can change parameters and programming to do these things and no pcm is safe from a hack.
Add on the proprietary software for any number of inner workings and operations that in some cases can cause real safety issues if not done right, it is downright scary.
Add in the freedom of invention and free market.......

There's more to it. They will not prevent you from changing your own oil or other maintenance stuff. It's already illegal to make changes to emission systems but, it's legal to purchase certain items that you can't use. Yet, we have to work with CARB compliance regulations etc.

I've seen many backyard fucked up repair jobs. I believe there should be some law against working on a brake system, suspension and emission related items.
I'm sure there's more people that fuck up a brake job in the driveway, than those that do it right. Would be no different than to give a twelve year old a written instruction sheet and have him put together a landing gear on a plane.

Everyone wants the government out of our life, I agree. Yet, when the fucktard did some inbred half drunken brake job and rearends your ass because he couldn't stop just soon enough and you're now fucked up, outta work and wifey left because your a broke dick and poor. Will you still think it's ok to allow stupid people to breed and fix shit?

Older vehicles that Joe dipshit buys some oversized carb for his 70's ride and completely throws off his vacuum and stoichiometry. Sure, the pile now spews excessive exhaust but only hurting the air somewhat. But, now his vacuum power assist brakes have less power assist. No biggy as he can run out and buy an ele vac pump and chamber to stick on there to help, no can't do that as it's no longer a valuable stock collector car with an oversized $400 run of the mill mis matched carb...

Lest not forget resale. I have software that I can change mileage on computer controlled instrument clusters and on board computers. How would you feel if I sold you a vehicle that I rolled back the mileage 100k? Or, I had changed fuel metering, valve timing and ignition parameters and then ran the living shit out of the dirty bitch it for a year playing road racer whore to only set it back to stock, and sell it to you as a lightly used vehicle? You won't know, until something breaks sooner than it should have or the squirrels start making bad noises.

Yes, I work on vehicles, yes I have the equipment to do things to on board computers for a couple manufacturers, yes I have the knowledge, understand it all, how to make more hp, know where to look for fuel mapping etc etc etc, at a cost on one end or the other. Surprisingly, stock works pretty damn good on newer vehicles now a days.
No, I will not change or work on yours, my licenses and subscriptions are too valuable to piss out the window.

That is a slippery slope logical fallacy. We are NOT 12 year olds. We are adult American citizens. If we decide we can do a brake job safely and are incorrect, it is no different than deciding we are sober enough to drive and being incorrect. The consequences of both are dire, and guilty parties should be held accountable for their actions in both cases.
The day we don't have the freedom to decide if we are ok to drive, or if we want to change our own brakes is the day Mr Orwell foretold in 1984. Personal responsibility is part of the freedom that our founding fathers fought for, and our dads and brothers are/have died to protect.

Ah, but yet it is ILLEGAL TO DRINK AND DRIVE. You have NO RIGHT to get behind the wheel, period, of of story.........
Many of the things, that just because you think you can, doesn't mean you should.
While I enjoy the freedoms given to me, there are any number of things I would like to do, think I can do and maybe even feel I have a right to do but, can't solely due to laws that prohibits those actions, or activities.
Drinking and driving is prohibited over .08. I have never asked myself if maybe .01 one way or another is worth the fines or loss of life, and that it was my right to make that decision for myself and others on the road.

I fully understand where you're coming from and honestly don't disagree. But, take drunk driving. If everyone was responsible and just had one beer, shot the shit then drug their happy ass home, there would be no need for a law. But as it stands, there's a shit ton of stupid fuckers that feel the right to be shit faced behind the wheel and kill people. Hence, the law because of, well, stupid fuckers.

It is also illegal to crash your car into someone else's. I beg to differ.. I DO have the right to drink and drive. If I have one beer, BS, and drive home I have exercised my RIGHT to be responsible for my own actions.
Many things I think I can do, and if I'm wrong about any of them I will bear the consequences.
Bottom line is it isn't (or shouldn't be) your job to decide for me.

Sounds like preventing people fro working on their own cars might be slightly in conflict with the Magnussen Moss warranty act.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson ... rranty_Act