WaGuns.org

Wonder if they're getting ready for the self driving car. Some articles say it's less than 25 years out. Makes a little sense if that's the case. They don't want us messing with the ecu if it governs the sensors that run the car.

YukonRob wrote:It is also illegal to crash your car into someone else's. I beg to differ.. I DO have the right to drink and drive. If I have one beer, BS, and drive home I have exercised my RIGHT to be responsible for my own actions.
Many things I think I can do, and if I'm wrong about any of them I will bear the consequences.
Bottom line is it isn't (or shouldn't be) your job to decide for me.

Sorry man, you're right.
I even agree that I don't need someone to tell me what to do. But then again, I'm not some idiot that thinks I can do what I want with my life while having no regards to others lives from choices I may make that are above and beyond just plain fucking stupid.
I might also add, it's not your fucking choice, or job, to end my life driving drunk, sexting, masturbating in the driver seat and what not. It's not your job to choose to end my life with stupidity.
Doesn't do me a fucking bit of good six feet under while our fucked up judicial system let's you walk out with slap after a year. How the fuck is that even remotely reasonable? But, you're pretty damn firm on the fact that it's within your rights in life to end mine, while just having to bear the consequences of wonderful judicial system..... Sounds pretty crappy to have that mentality and opinion towards others.

BTW, check in with Joe police officer and ask what the definition of drinking and driving is.

RENCORP wrote:

bhpdrew wrote:What if you have a 1932 Ford pick up which they don't supply parts for?
(My case)

Same with my 78 pickup - safe by virtue of no electronics, bone yards full of parts trucks, and a thriving after market parts industry.

My last fuel pump replacement was from NAPA - $23.00 for the pump, 20 minutes with some wrenches and a screwdriver outa my day, done.

Fuck modern auto tech.

Never shoulda sold my Cheyenne. I imagine the prices on older rigs are gunna fuckin skyrocket if it passes

deadshot2 wrote:The real cure is to not make it illegal to work on your own vehicle, just illegal to operate it on the highway with mod's that circumvent the emissions controls. There are several methods of monitoring this on the market now and some are as simple as detecting excessive emissions as you drive by. "Click" and a picture is taken soon to turn into an "invite" to have your vehicle inspected at an "Emissions Testing" station.

I am not going to read this whole thread, too much speculation for me. DeadShot is on to something here: Japan has been doing this for more than 40 years. There are more than a few GIs on this forum who are familiar with the vehicle inspection system ("sha-ken") there. In a nutshell, any vehicle that does not pass minimum standards (for example, emissions, braking, headlights, etc.) as well as any vehicle that deviates from the original manufacturer permit from the government will NOT be licensed upon annual inspection. What does this mean?

First, of course, the vehicle must be tip-top safety shape. So, the service shops make a killing repairing/replacing everything. Belts, hoses, tires, fluids. Whatever, whether needed or not. You get it, this is a make-work policy designed to keep service shops in business. After 5 years, it no longer makes sense to "fix" your car, so you sell it, and buy a new one. You get it: A perfect policy to keep the new car manufacturers in business. The barely used "old fleet" then gets exported to the other right hand drive countries (Pakistan, New Zealand, Russia---well, technically left hand drive, but Vladivostok has a shot-ton of right hand drive used cars from Japan).

Second, concerning the "modifications." Each new car must be pre-certified as meeting Japan motor vehicle design standards, and gets a certification number. When you inspect your used car every 3, 2, then 1 years, the inspector checks against the original certification. Any deviation (e.g. larger headlights, different engine, whatever), and BOOM, you fail. You must return it to original, or never get a license to drive on the public roads again.

The takeaway? The manufacturers did this to "ensure public safety." It is kind of like "let's do this for the children." Pure BS, of course. The national police force is in cahoots with the makers who are in cahoots with the politicians. Consumers loose big time.

If you live in Japan, and really want a cheap ride, the trick is to buy a used car, take it to the inspection station yourself, and drive it through the inspection without any dealership service personnel. The inspectors are mostly retired policemen, and don't really know much about cars. It is actually easy to get the re-certification. All you end up paying for is the taxes. It can be done.

EPA wants to do this in the U.S.? Bite me. I can out think you dumb-asses thirteen ways to Friday.

MadPick wrote:
Exaggeration much?!!

They're specifically talking about modifying the onboard computer . . . not the rest of the car. We can argue about the computer issue, but don't make it out to be more than that.

Just the computer.

Which means people can tinker with the mechanics to their heart's content still...

kf7mjf wrote:Just the computer.

Which means people can tinker with the mechanics to their heart's content still...

Tinker with the mechanicals on a new car and the computer will flag a WTF and put you in limp mode. The degree of automation on any newer vehicle means that tuning and modification must also include the vehicle's brain.

Buy a new computer, and replace the factory one with it. Much legal hilarity ensues. Linux could run a car. Just need hackers working on the problem.

kf7mjf wrote:Buy a new computer, and replace the factory one with it. Much legal hilarity ensues. Linux could run a car. Just need hackers working on the problem.

This is exactly what the manufacturers are trying to prevent. Linux could run a car, but you need to reverse engineer most of the inputs, all of the logic and PID loops, and appropriate outputs. And it's not just simple binary or scalar analog stuff either. Possible, yes. Feasible...maybe. But the OEM's are doing their damnedest to make it illegal to even try.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I'd like to see the dealer model broken too. In most (all?) states it's illegal to purchase a car directly from the manufacturer.

CA actually gets that one right. It's one reason Tesla set up camp there.

cycle61 wrote:CA actually gets that one right. It's one reason Tesla set up camp there.

Broken clock, etc, etc, etc....

kf7mjf wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens. I'd like to see the dealer model broken too. In most (all?) states it's illegal to purchase a car directly from the manufacturer.

It sure would be nice if a Ford was a Ford was a Ford and you could just buy it. Instead of the games. But that franchisee lobby is a strong one.

pdrake wrote:

deadshot2 wrote:

First, of course, the vehicle must be tip-top safety shape. So, the service shops make a killing repairing/replacing everything. Belts, hoses, tires, fluids. Whatever, whether needed or not. You get it, this is a make-work policy designed to keep service shops in business.

Not necessarily. Most existing vehicle inspection programs in the various states that go beyond simple emission inspections restrict their inspections to safety items. Brakes, tires, steering, and vision related items such as windshield pitting or cracks are the focus.

Here's something that might give a bunch of people pause. Those 'systems' that most directly relate to safety, tires, brakes, and steering, can be serviced and repaired by pretty much anyone. In some cases brake jobs are being performed with people possessing IQ's not much above "room temperature. Ditto for wheel alignments and tire repair/replacement.

How do I know? Because I had to deal with exactly those same said persons for over 32 years of my working career. This is not the case in Dealerships but think about this the next time you go to the neighborhood Tire Store. Likewise when you have some "shade-tree mechanic" do your brakes because the shop that hires "Certified" mechanics wants to charge more.

FWIW, it's best to give it some thought BEFORE getting the work done. It's a little late when the car ahead of you is getting closer and closer at a rapid rate, and you have both feet on the brake pedal while bending a big "U" in the steering wheel because your were pulling so hard in order to get more braking pressure.

I have Hal 9000 in all of my cars....

WaJim wrote:I have Hal 9000 in all of my cars....

I'm sorry Jim, but I'm afraid you cannot do that.