9/11 Documentary

[finster]

Huh. It's like different buildings are built different ways, and sometimes they don't always have airplanes crashing into them either...

We were talking about wtc 7 and how it collapsed without a plane hitting it.....but those are just silly inconvenient truths. So do we make our steel and concrete buildings that much weaker than other countries?

So I guess the real answer as to why the world trade centers fell is shoddy construction and poor design. Other similar buildings have no free fall collapse issues when simply set on fire. We must design our buildings to go into free fall collapse after they catch on fire.......

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[OneManWolfpack]

https://youtu.be/1JHmX_HPmmU

Obviously fire caused 3 WTC buildings to collapse like charges on controlled demo. Oh wait, WTC 7 wasn't on fire but dropped exactly the same way. It's criminal. Keep drinking the koolaid.

[TINCANBANDIT]

OK so some questions for those that believe this was an inside job

1. Do you believe that planes were indeed hijacked by members of Al Queda? If not please explain.
2. Do you believe that those planes were crashed into the WTC buildings? If not then what did we see on TV? if the holes were not made by planes what did create the holes?
3. Do you believe that the buildings collapsed because of a controlled demolition? If so how did they hide the miles of wire required to detonate the charges and how could they be sure the wiring would not be compromised in the plane crash?
4. If you believe this was an inside job, who was behind it and why?
5. If WTC was purposefully brought down, why? Wasn't Tower 1 and Tower 2 along with the Marriot and other buildings enough? Why bring down WTC7??

I really don't see how a conspiracy of this magnitude could be carried out...for conspiracies to work, you need a minimal amount of people who know what is going on, this kind of job would require hundreds of people to know "too much" info for this to work.

I am not a structural engineer, nor do I pretend to be one, but one thing I do know is that shit happens every day that surprises even the best experts.

We have a saying in the electrical business:"electricity doesn't know it is supposed to follow rules"

[kf7mjf]

Huh. It's like different buildings are built different ways, and sometimes they don't always have airplanes crashing into them either...

We were talking about wtc 7 and how it collapsed without a plane hitting it.....but those are just silly inconvenient truths. So do we make our steel and concrete buildings that much weaker than other countries?

So I guess the real answer as to why the world trade centers fell is shoddy construction and poor design. Other similar buildings have no free fall collapse issues when simply set on fire. We must design our buildings to go into free fall collapse after they catch on fire.......

images.jpeg

You do realize that skyscrapers are generally designed to "pancake" if they collapse? That is, they collapse into their own footprint basically? Weakened by enough fire, I'm not surprised that WTC collapsed. BTW, you should read the psychology journal I linked to in the tinfoil hat thread, with a very nice series of discussions on WHY people believe in conspiracy theories.

[finster]

OK so some questions for those that believe this was an inside job

1. Do you believe that planes were indeed hijacked by members of Al Queda? If not please explain.
2. Do you believe that those planes were crashed into the WTC buildings? If not then what did we see on TV? if the holes were not made by planes what did create the holes?
3. Do you believe that the buildings collapsed because of a controlled demolition? If so how did they hide the miles of wire required to detonate the charges and how could they be sure the wiring would not be compromised in the plane crash?
4. If you believe this was an inside job, who was behind it and why?
5. If WTC was purposefully brought down, why? Wasn't Tower 1 and Tower 2 along with the Marriot and other buildings enough? Why bring down WTC7??

I really don't see how a conspiracy of this magnitude could be carried out...for conspiracies to work, you need a minimal amount of people who know what is going on, this kind of job would require hundreds of people to know "too much" info for this to work.

I am not a structural engineer, nor do I pretend to be one, but one thing I do know is that shit happens every day that surprises even the best experts.

We have a saying in the electrical business:"electricity doesn't know it is supposed to follow rules"

I was really hoping somebody with more knowledge of 9/11 would answer these questions since I have spent more time researching it since I made this thread than I had previously. In order to understand what my beliefs regarding the first two questions I feel I need to give a broader explanation of my beliefs and how I came by them.

On 9/11 I was job hunting from my parents house as I had recently finished my time in the air force. My mom came in to tell me that a plane had hit the world trade center. I watched in horror until about 5-10 seconds after the second plane hit. At that point I came to conclusion that we had known the attacks were coming and did nothing to stop them. Why did I believe this?

Well first of all I couldn't believe that we hadn't scrambled jets and shut down any air traffic near NYC. Secondly that large of a planned attack wouldn't go unnoticed by our intelligence community. After having access to weekly secret level intelligence reports while in the air force I realized we knew much more about what was going on in the world than we let on.

So what do I believe now? I believe that the attacks were most likely financed or helped along by some very powerful people. However I have to say that this conspiracy along with a few others leaves me feeling like the character from Plato's allegory of the cave. I am at the point of knowledge where you can see the shadows or outlines of the conspiracy but that is about all. Hopefully this analogy makes sense. Basically I don't believe I have an answer as to who did it but I do believe there is a short list of suspects.

1. I believe that the planes could have been hijacked by al queda but I also do not believe that al queda was the terror network that our country propped them up as before and after 9/11. There is a very good documentary called the power of nightmares which does a good job of explaining how al queda was a manufactured enemy. So basically I don't know who was in those planes but I do believe that some planes were crashed into the building. The movie I posted shows that we had the capability to remote control a 747 like a drone in the 80's so it is possible that no one was on those planes.

2. As stated above I believe that planes hit those buildings that day. I'm not sure what planes and I'm not sure who was on them or flying them.

3. I started typing in remote detonators in Google but then thought better of hitting enter. I do not know the technology involved in building demolition however if this was planned by rich and powerful people you would believe that they had access to the highest levels of technology. There are many ways that I can envision to avoid using wires but I don't want to research it and have the fbi kick down my door.

If someone does know about demolition than I would love to hear why wires are needed to detonate explosives and why they can't be detonated via remote control.

4. I don't know. I have some guesses but I don't trust what I read on the internet as I believe at least 95% of stuff out there is either disinformation or garbage. There are many motives but Afghanistan would be the most obvious. The Taliban had been very hostile to outside interference within their country. They had refused to allow an oil pipeline to be built across their country. They had also almost completely stopped the opium trade in their country.

Since we have invaded and installed our own US friendly puppet government the oil pipeline was built and the opium trade is bigger than it ever was. Ask a vet what we do with the poppy fields we find over there. Do we burn them like the Taliban? Or do we leave them? Some troops even suggest they were told to guard poppy fields.

Besides that there is the power that the patriot act has given our government and of course Iraq. Would the American people have stood for us invading Iraq if it weren't for 9/11? Fear is a powerful motivator. The movie power of nightmares suggests that the neocons are the ones behind all of our current wars with their beliefs that Americans need a new myth to stand behind and coalesce the nation. That myth is that we are the freedom givers fighting against the evil terrorists. This notion that we needed an enemy was made popular by Leo Strauss a philosopher who many prominent neocons follow.

Strauss was a fan of max Weber who believed that for modern republics to work properly they required an outside enemy for the people to band together against. So Strauss believed and taught that if there was no enemy than one must be manufactured for the good of the country. Here is an interesting read regarding Strauss and 9/11:
http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/2006/06/godfather-of-911.html

To sum up my answer to this question.....I don't know who but there are a ton of different motives out there. I just named the most prominent in my mind.

5. Wtc 7 was probably brought down because of what was inside of it. It had been a cia office and was the home of other government offices. A fellow waguns member who was the first to tell me about wtc 7 stated that based upon his research it had been demolished to hide financial wrongdoings related to the savings and loan scandal which were still being investigated. This would have led to Jeb Bush being indicted or charged with financial crimes. Here is another take as to what might have motivated the demolition of wtc 7:

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/05/donald-rumsfeld-demolition-wtc-7.html

Their belief is that it was demolished to hide wrongdoing by Rumsfeld. As far as what I believe? I don't know what was in that building but it was important enough to demolish.

As far as leaks are concerned. Who involved in 9/11, assuming it was an inside job, would openly talk about their involvement? If someone told you it was a hoax and they setup the explosives than how would you react? You would probably want to kill them. Yet there were leaks from third party sources. The video I posted highlights a few of them. Many people were warned not to fly that day or that week.

Last edited by finster on Tue May 12, 2015 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

[finster]

Huh. It's like different buildings are built different ways, and sometimes they don't always have airplanes crashing into them either...

We were talking about wtc 7 and how it collapsed without a plane hitting it.....but those are just silly inconvenient truths. So do we make our steel and concrete buildings that much weaker than other countries?

So I guess the real answer as to why the world trade centers fell is shoddy construction and poor design. Other similar buildings have no free fall collapse issues when simply set on fire. We must design our buildings to go into free fall collapse after they catch on fire.......

images.jpeg

You do realize that skyscrapers are generally designed to "pancake" if they collapse? That is, they collapse into their own footprint basically? Weakened by enough fire, I'm not surprised that WTC collapsed. BTW, you should read the psychology journal I linked to in the tinfoil hat thread, with a very nice series of discussions on WHY people believe in conspiracy theories.

Please show me all these other pancaked building from fires.......lol keep calling me crazy for not buying the lies of other people.....all I can hear is "baaaaah baaaah baaaah"

[H2obouget]

OK so some questions for those that believe this was an inside job

1. Do you believe that planes were indeed hijacked by members of Al Queda? If not please explain.
2. Do you believe that those planes were crashed into the WTC buildings? If not then what did we see on TV? if the holes were not made by planes what did create the holes?
3. Do you believe that the buildings collapsed because of a controlled demolition? If so how did they hide the miles of wire required to detonate the charges and how could they be sure the wiring would not be compromised in the plane crash?
4. If you believe this was an inside job, who was behind it and why?
5. If WTC was purposefully brought down, why? Wasn't Tower 1 and Tower 2 along with the Marriot and other buildings enough? Why bring down WTC7??

I really don't see how a conspiracy of this magnitude could be carried out...for conspiracies to work, you need a minimal amount of people who know what is going on, this kind of job would require hundreds of people to know "too much" info for this to work.

I am not a structural engineer, nor do I pretend to be one, but one thing I do know is that shit happens every day that surprises even the best experts.

We have a saying in the electrical business:"electricity doesn't know it is supposed to follow rules"

1. Uncertain. We do know that Cheney and Rumsfeld drafted a proposed plan to strike at Cuba by taking a flight out of Florida, filling the plane with dead bodies, and placing an explosive charge in the hold, then remotely flying the plane over Cuba, blowing the charge and crashing into Havana.
Date of the plan was around 1970.
We know that the FBI reported that the planes were highjacked.

2. Yes, they were planes. However accounts of what hit the pentagon suggest something other than an airplane. (And there was a distinct lack of Airplane debris at the Pentagon)
Accounts on the pentagon say the object was moving very fast.
If you want to maintain that the Jet fuel from the planes burned down the Twin Towers....Where was the super intense fire created by the super hot burning jet fuel?? Did it incinerate the entire plane? Yes there are a small handful of pics that show plane parts.
The German airplane that crashed in the Alps dropped crap over a one mile area. The pentagon plane vanished in a fire?

3. Reports came out that there had been construction inside both towers for the last 2-3 months. This construction was being done in the elevators.
How was it not compromised? I don't know...I'm not a demo expert. My basic electricity skills tell me that it's not hard to wire independent circuits.

4. The $64,000 dollar question! I don't know.
I will ask you this in turn....Who claimed credit for the planes and when?
If you said al-Qaeda, you are wrong.
The US Government made the tie between the 19 supposed Hijackers and al-Qaeda, based on evidence that the FBI uncovered in just 2 days.
TWO DAYS!?!
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/13/us/af ... chool.html
Oh look the entire Federal Government finalized a report in just 1 year and 42 days. November 27, 2002
HOLY FREAKING CRAP!!! I bet that was one hell of an in-depth, fact checking, investigation.
We can solve the worst terrorist attack on US soil in history in just one year....This investigation covered multiple countries, thousands of interviews, 10s of thousands of man hours!!!
And they did it in just over 1 year! WOW! Unbelievable!

No...Really.... it's UNBELIEVABLE!
Either that is the fastest investigation in history, it was made up, or someone knew something. Two fo those options equal LIES.

Why the hell would the terrorists use their real names? People have been forging passports for years before this. Minor point, let's look at the bigger ones
Why put a LIST OF ALL YOUR TERRORISTS BUDDIES in your luggage?
And how convenient for the investigators that the luggage of one of the hijackers was left behind and not destroyed in their grand plan.

So either Bin Ladin had a real hard-on for taking down those buildings, or someone knew that Bin Ladin would make the perfect scapegoat.

Let's ask Bin Ladin...Oh wait we can't.
Let's ask Khalid Sheikh Mohammed....Oh right we caught him in 2003...he confessed after being in the CIA pit for almost a year, then in 2006 we sent him to Guantanamo and he made a formal confession in 2007.
Let's ask Ramzi bin al-Shibh... Caught him on September 11, 2002...CIA had him until 2006, and then he hit Cuba. However, reports say he has been less than cooperative the entire time.

5. Gold, Power, Control. Those are the only logical options that are on the table.

[APA]

http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=9/11_conspiracy_theories

[APA]

http://mobile.news.com.au/world/six-rea ... 6717737311

[finster]

http://mobile.news.com.au/world/six-really-stupid-911-conspiracies-debunked-in-about-six-seconds/story-fndir2ev-1226717737311

BAAAAAAAAHH!!! (my best impersonation of a sheep's bleat)

[kf7mjf]

So the believers in 9-11 conspiracies are well... more enlightened than the rest of us Eh? That ahh would make you the Illuminati? 9-11 conspiracy is a conspiracy to make conspiracies look bad

[APA]

http://mobile.news.com.au/world/six-really-stupid-911-conspiracies-debunked-in-about-six-seconds/story-fndir2ev-1226717737311

BAAAAAAAAHH!!! (my best impersonation of a sheep's bleat)

[TechnoWeenie]

If someone does know about demolition than I would love to hear why wires are needed to detonate explosives and why they can't be detonated via remote control.

You can. They're NOT used because of safety reasons. Stray RF could potentially trigger an explosion. HOWEVER, there are ways around it. like using an encrypted or coded signal to operate the switch. Even with RF present, it wouldn't set off the explosive without receiving that code.

It's quite simple, actually. Just not used, because of the aforementioned safety concerns.

Wires work, they're safer, and cheaper.

I've installed non-coded wireless receivers to control different things, and it's not uncommon for the devices to seemingly operate by themselves, as RFI has switched the devices on. Coded wireless receivers and corresponding transmitters solve that issue.

[UpDog]

[kf7mjf]