Re: ***DO NOT. go to precise shooters sale
Sat May 09, 2015 1:59 pm
sinus211 wrote:I came to both Sgn and Waguns with the intention of meeting like minded folks and making friends, not making enemies.
I like that. And for the most part, making friends is what all of us have done on both sites.
Mike, thanks for posting to clarify what happened. Let's just leave it at that.
Re: ***DO NOT. go to precise shooters sale
Sat May 09, 2015 8:45 pm
Sooooo... Let me clarify.
It is Precise Shooter's official position that we welcome everyone in the store - regardless of religion, political affiliation, race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. We will not judge you by appearance, ethnicity, body shape, or anything else. We believe that the firearm industry needs a "big tent" attitude, and the preservation of our gun rights depends first and foremost on how many people participate in the sport.
That said, we are also very explicit that there are several - very few - categories of people with who we refuse to deal.
First, I think this should be obvious, we observe the law above all else, and will not deal with you if there is even a remote appearance of an attempt to circumvent the law. For example, if your come with your obviously disinterested girlfriend or a buddy, select the gun, and then tell us that it will be bought by this other person, please do not be surprised that we will turn you away. This would be a straw sale, and it is very, very illegal.
Second, if you buy the gun, get a delay on a background sale, and then later fail to collect it, we will not deal with you in the future. There are some extenuating circumstances, but finding a gun slightly cheaper elsewhere is not one of them. We do not charge you before the background check succeeds - we rely on your word that you will follow through with the purchase. If we cannot rely on your word, we'd rather you get help elsewhere.
Finally, we will not deal with you if you are rude with our employees, or lack integrity in your dealings with us. The story of Michael, AKA Sinus211, is of this third kind. In the past - and in this thread - Michael has made a number of untrue statements about us and our business practices, which is why he is not welcome in the store. In fact, give the past history, it amazes me that he had gall to show up for the sale.
Here is the actual version of events that can be easily verified, since (a) there is a PM message trail which was made available to site admins, and (b) Michael's presence on our grounds is fully captured by security cameras. I even captured the record of Michael's store visit, to make sure that it does not roll over in the DVR.
Michael has posted a comment on the thread saying that people don't buy guns from me because I supported I-594. This is, of course, a lie, and many people who bought guns from me know that I advocated against it. Not only this, but supporting I-594 by a gun dealer is, in my opinion, highly unethical, because it demonstrates a clear conflict of interest, and special place in hell should be reserved for businesses who use political power to screw customers to make more money.
This is what he wrote on the public thread:
I have sent him a PM, literally, the following (mods, I am allowed to post MY PMs, right?):
Notice that this is very different from Michael's statement up above:
He did not PM me, I did. What I got back I cannot post, because this was the reason why my thread was removed by the moderators before: they said that PMs must be kept private. However, the thread was alive shortly, many people saw it back then, and it contained Michael's response verbatim. Moderators have an access to his response, and can verify the veracity of my statement. What he said in response was - sorry, I did some research, I can now see that you did not; however, I won't post anything, and if you do, I will post a negative review of the store.
The negative review was for the incident where Michael has visited the store to purchase the rifle. He claimed that he was ignored in the store for 10 minutes, because my sales associates were too busy "BSing wbout guns" and I was too busy on my computer.
Incidentally, I do, of course, have a video recording of the store. Michael entered it @ 13:32:52 PM on Saturday, 12/28/2015. There were 2 salespeople in the store, and 4 customers, excluding Michael. I was working with one of the customers on his transaction (a trade), two other customers were being shown guns (2 salespeople, 2 guns out on the counter). Even though, less than 3 minutes and 30 seconds after his entry, Michael had a gun he was purchasing in his hands. After that, he had an undivided attention of one salesperson all the way until he left the store just over 18 minutes later.
So today when Michael showed up for the sale, I asked him to leave. The two people with him - I assume one was the OP - were right there when I did it. I said that I am not going to deal with him because of the slander he posted on WAGUNS. Michael said "I apologized" and I said "and you threatened to post fake negative review of the store". To which Michael responded - "No, I was ignored for 20 minutes" (this grew from 10 minutes previously), at which point I recanted the paragraph above about security cameras. Of course, this all happened IN FRONT of gregsguns AND ALSO THE EXTERNAL SECURITY CAMERAS. At which point Michael, his wife, and gregsguns all left side by side.
So as you can see, the only true statement in Michael's post above is that he is embellishing the truth - except - not a little. You can judge the level of embellishment in the OP's post on your own.
In my relatively short 5 years in this industry I have not seen customers like that, and for my own and my employees sanity, I would rather not see them in the future.
This is all.
It is Precise Shooter's official position that we welcome everyone in the store - regardless of religion, political affiliation, race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. We will not judge you by appearance, ethnicity, body shape, or anything else. We believe that the firearm industry needs a "big tent" attitude, and the preservation of our gun rights depends first and foremost on how many people participate in the sport.
That said, we are also very explicit that there are several - very few - categories of people with who we refuse to deal.
First, I think this should be obvious, we observe the law above all else, and will not deal with you if there is even a remote appearance of an attempt to circumvent the law. For example, if your come with your obviously disinterested girlfriend or a buddy, select the gun, and then tell us that it will be bought by this other person, please do not be surprised that we will turn you away. This would be a straw sale, and it is very, very illegal.
Second, if you buy the gun, get a delay on a background sale, and then later fail to collect it, we will not deal with you in the future. There are some extenuating circumstances, but finding a gun slightly cheaper elsewhere is not one of them. We do not charge you before the background check succeeds - we rely on your word that you will follow through with the purchase. If we cannot rely on your word, we'd rather you get help elsewhere.
Finally, we will not deal with you if you are rude with our employees, or lack integrity in your dealings with us. The story of Michael, AKA Sinus211, is of this third kind. In the past - and in this thread - Michael has made a number of untrue statements about us and our business practices, which is why he is not welcome in the store. In fact, give the past history, it amazes me that he had gall to show up for the sale.
Here is the actual version of events that can be easily verified, since (a) there is a PM message trail which was made available to site admins, and (b) Michael's presence on our grounds is fully captured by security cameras. I even captured the record of Michael's store visit, to make sure that it does not roll over in the DVR.
Michael has posted a comment on the thread saying that people don't buy guns from me because I supported I-594. This is, of course, a lie, and many people who bought guns from me know that I advocated against it. Not only this, but supporting I-594 by a gun dealer is, in my opinion, highly unethical, because it demonstrates a clear conflict of interest, and special place in hell should be reserved for businesses who use political power to screw customers to make more money.
This is what he wrote on the public thread:
sinus211 wrote:Wow, this thread.
-Don't worry about the muslim college. Some newb will get a little premature in bomb building class and the problem will solve itself.
-kf7mjf: Solyanik supported the passage of 594. That is why people don't want to support his shop. It has nothing to do with private sales vs. dealer BGC's
-Islam is dangerous. Religion herds people like shepherds herd a flock. Start steering that flock in a violent direction and most of the sheep will tend to follow. Our government is crippled and will not protect us. Stockpile your weapons and ammo, prepare to defend yourselves.
I have sent him a PM, literally, the following (mods, I am allowed to post MY PMs, right?):
Solyanik wrote:I am going to give you an opportunity to publically apologize before I am calling you out myself. Where did you get the idea that I supported 594? I voted against it, and I talked to a lot of people about its many flaws. If I do not see a thread from you within a day, I will start the thread myself. Libel is very much not cool.
Notice that this is very different from Michael's statement up above:
sinus211 wrote:Sergey and I have had our disagreements in the past. I mistakenly posted in a thread that he had supported I-594. After fact checking myself I found I that I was mistaken, he had not, in fact, supported I-594. I would have made a correction to the post I made in error but the thread was closed due to some unrelated bickering.
I pm'd Sergey an apology, stating that I was wrong and would have made the correction had that thread still been open. He replied with an ultimatem stating that I must immediately start a thread with a grand apology that worships his greatness (obviously I'm embellishing a little here but you get the idea) He stated that I had 12 hours to comply or he would start a thread trashing my name. I responded with an apology.
He did not PM me, I did. What I got back I cannot post, because this was the reason why my thread was removed by the moderators before: they said that PMs must be kept private. However, the thread was alive shortly, many people saw it back then, and it contained Michael's response verbatim. Moderators have an access to his response, and can verify the veracity of my statement. What he said in response was - sorry, I did some research, I can now see that you did not; however, I won't post anything, and if you do, I will post a negative review of the store.
The negative review was for the incident where Michael has visited the store to purchase the rifle. He claimed that he was ignored in the store for 10 minutes, because my sales associates were too busy "BSing wbout guns" and I was too busy on my computer.
Incidentally, I do, of course, have a video recording of the store. Michael entered it @ 13:32:52 PM on Saturday, 12/28/2015. There were 2 salespeople in the store, and 4 customers, excluding Michael. I was working with one of the customers on his transaction (a trade), two other customers were being shown guns (2 salespeople, 2 guns out on the counter). Even though, less than 3 minutes and 30 seconds after his entry, Michael had a gun he was purchasing in his hands. After that, he had an undivided attention of one salesperson all the way until he left the store just over 18 minutes later.
So today when Michael showed up for the sale, I asked him to leave. The two people with him - I assume one was the OP - were right there when I did it. I said that I am not going to deal with him because of the slander he posted on WAGUNS. Michael said "I apologized" and I said "and you threatened to post fake negative review of the store". To which Michael responded - "No, I was ignored for 20 minutes" (this grew from 10 minutes previously), at which point I recanted the paragraph above about security cameras. Of course, this all happened IN FRONT of gregsguns AND ALSO THE EXTERNAL SECURITY CAMERAS. At which point Michael, his wife, and gregsguns all left side by side.
So as you can see, the only true statement in Michael's post above is that he is embellishing the truth - except - not a little. You can judge the level of embellishment in the OP's post on your own.
In my relatively short 5 years in this industry I have not seen customers like that, and for my own and my employees sanity, I would rather not see them in the future.
This is all.
Re: ***DO NOT. go to precise shooters sale
Sat May 09, 2015 8:49 pm
I briefly re-opened this thread so that Sergey could tell his side of the story, which I think is fair.
Now everyone has said their piece; take what you will from it, and let's let this go. For what it's worth, I consider both Sergey and Mike to be my friends, and none of this is going to change that for me.
If anyone has anything that they think needs to be added to this story, please PM me . . . otherwise, I'm going to go pour myself a drink of whiskey, plop my ass on the couch and call it a night.
Now everyone has said their piece; take what you will from it, and let's let this go. For what it's worth, I consider both Sergey and Mike to be my friends, and none of this is going to change that for me.
If anyone has anything that they think needs to be added to this story, please PM me . . . otherwise, I'm going to go pour myself a drink of whiskey, plop my ass on the couch and call it a night.