WTF?! Can anyone say Police State?

[H2obouget]

Two stories about the same area.

Ogdensburg woman says border patrol agent shocked her with stun gun (VIDEO)
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/news ... s-20150515

After the officer tried to force the woman to move from her location by force (where she doesn't appear to be blocking anyone of interferring) and she tried to keep him from touching her, they claim she assaulted the officer. They then then tackle her and tazer to to "gain complaiance".

North country residents have mixed views on U.S. border patrol checkpoints
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/news ... s-20150515

If you google the location, they are on Rt 37...which is a USA to USA hwy. They are demanding ID and information on where you have been and where you are going.

THIS IS BULLSHIT!

[Chains]

I seen several videos in the last couple years of these Border/DHS Agents in these kind of encounters (Show us your papers). The individuals who resist/question these Agents were often labeled 'Assholse/Instigators' by the General Public. I prefer to think/hope the Agents/Officers do not really want to be doing it anymore than We do. Enough common sense, peaceful resistance is what They hope to report to Their Superiors, to demonstrate the unwillingness of the US Citizen to be subjected to Totalitarian Rule.

I Hope...?

[MadPick]

Oh man . . . fuck those checkpoints. That is bullshit, for sure.

[STED9R]

Hmmmm, I've dealt with border patrol agents a number of times. Out on some dirt road or trail miles from any paved road, within feet or a couple miles from Canadian border.
Mind you, they deal with immigrants, guns and drugs daily. Yet, not once have I been harassed or detained, even with a weapon on my side. Not once.
It's the same old routine, where you from and where are you going. Then, it's the usual, don't get caught across the border with your gun, the trail off this road down yonder doesn't have a border marker so watch out, if you take this dirt road then turn here then turn there you'll find a really neat cliff to ride along so you can see the valley etc etc.

Mind you, this is out in the middle of nothing, were you can't even hear the banjo music let alone a gun shot or some witnesses to video tape police abuse.

[joao01]

i've gone through many border patrol checkpoints down in AZ. It is usually slow down and stop (or almost stop). once they seem I'm a white dude they wave me through.

There was that one time though....

[mancat]

i've gone through many border patrol checkpoints down in AZ. It is usually slow down and stop (or almost stop). once they seem I'm a white dude they wave me through.

There was that one time though....

ran through one of these in AZ in 2012. had my WA license and TWIC out in a flip pouch, started to roll the window down, they just looked at it and waved me through.

what was funny was passing across CA state border and seeing several billboard warnings about bringing out of state fruit into California. get bent.

I was reminded of why I decided to say fuck CA laws and carried several pistols in the car when we rolled down the highway past San Bernardino and saw what looked like a dead body rolled into a space blanket on the side of the road. to this day we still wonder what we really saw, but traffic was flying down the road so fast that it flew past us in a blur, both my wife and I just looked at each other and went WTF

[waglocker]

But you feel safe, right?

[TechnoWeenie]

There was a timeline involved..

Within 2 minutes, he said..

'You're not being detained'
'You ARE being detained, sit back in your car'
'You're NOT being detained, but we're getting a K9 to search your car'
'You're NOT being detained, you're free to go'
'Your CAR is being detained, but you're not, you can leave'
'You CAN'T leave, you need to move over here'

Fucking clowns.

[RockHopper]

She was lippy, and aggressive. She verbally backed that officer into a corner, and baited him into an active assault. I do not excuse his actions, or hers. However...how sad of a state of affairs are we in, when a large chunk of the populace is this disgusted with the behavior of Police across the nation? That people would resort to this kind of indignance towards our society's inner line of defense....it's tragic and depressing when you really think about it.

We have to get better, or this shits just gonna keep coming apart at the seams. As a kid, I had it drilled into me by Hollywood, Family, tradition....whatever,

The cops are the good guys. To the best of their ability, they stood between us, and the bad guys. They are to be respected. They are to be obeyed, because they represent the laws which separate us from our less fortunate neighbors. They should be appreciated for their service.
Honestly, that all sounds exhausting. I couldn't do it. I'm not the right type. I WOULD like to see more of the right type though. I'd like to never fear that insisting on my birthrights as an American, would get those rights taken away.
Which came first....the chicken or the egg. I can't help but feel an entitlement, that because my ridiculous taxes pay their salaries, that they should be the ones to put in more effort first. Shouldn't the leaders be the leaders?

On my part, I resolve to put far more effort into my local politics and elections, and I also commit to being more friendly and respectful to the few officers I come into contact with. If somebody else here has any suggestions, I welcome your idea's.


I pity this woman her experience. I'd like to applaud her continued commitment to joining law enforcement but......I just can't. The dumb bitch doesn't even have the sense not to poke at bears.

[H2obouget]

Sorry, but I greatly disagree.

Based on what we know, they had no probable cause to stop this woman in the first place. She was acting nervous?
That's not a crime. Talking to cops makes most people nervous. And "acting nervous" is highly subjective.
She even asks why she was singled out, and gets run around answers.
When she then inquires if she is being detained, it's no, yes, not you- the car, now you...the officers fail at any decent consistant verbal communication.
They ask her to move back by her car...once the assault starts, it becomes clear that she is within feet of her car already. The officers just want to make her do what they say.
Sorry if you don't detain or arrest me...you don't get to command me.

Frankly if it were me, I wouldn't have said I will call 911, I would have walked over to my car and simply called the local sheriff's Dept and told them the whole thing and asked for an deputy to assist in stopping my unlawful detention.

Failing that, I would have asked for the supervisor's supervisor.
I would asked for a complete explanation, without the other officers present.
If they failed at that point..shut up and plan the law suit.

I applaud the woman for at least attempting to stand up for her rights and opposing the unlawful stop.
The fact that the only charge they had on her is striking a federal officer, in a situation that they caused, goes to show that they really had no basis for the stop in the first place.

[mancat]

She was lippy, and aggressive. She verbally backed that officer into a corner, and baited him into an active assault. I do not excuse his actions, or hers. However...how sad of a state of affairs are we in, when a large chunk of the populace is this disgusted with the behavior of Police across the nation? That people would resort to this kind of indignance towards our society's inner line of defense....it's tragic and depressing when you really think about it.

We have to get better, or this shits just gonna keep coming apart at the seams. As a kid, I had it drilled into me by Hollywood, Family, tradition....whatever,

The cops are the good guys. To the best of their ability, they stood between us, and the bad guys. They are to be respected. They are to be obeyed, because they represent the laws which separate us from our less fortunate neighbors. They should be appreciated for their service.
Honestly, that all sounds exhausting. I couldn't do it. I'm not the right type. I WOULD like to see more of the right type though. I'd like to never fear that insisting on my birthrights as an American, would get those rights taken away.
Which came first....the chicken or the egg. I can't help but feel an entitlement, that because my ridiculous taxes pay their salaries, that they should be the ones to put in more effort first. Shouldn't the leaders be the leaders?

On my part, I resolve to put far more effort into my local politics and elections, and I also commit to being more friendly and respectful to the few officers I come into contact with. If somebody else here has any suggestions, I welcome your idea's.


I pity this woman her experience. I'd like to applaud her continued commitment to joining law enforcement but......I just can't. The dumb bitch doesn't even have the sense not to poke at bears.

I'm not a cop hater by a long stretch, but their relationship with the public nationwide is strained, and it's not entirely our (that is, citizens') fault. Not even bringing up the "black lives matter" BS. Talking botched raids, documented poor behavior of officers in otherwise innocuous interactions with the public, and an us-vs-them culture and attitude towards the public that is all too often worn on their shoulder for all to see.. Add to that the fact that organizationally, many police departments brush much of it under the floor, keep the offenders untouchable, and even sometimes encourage officers to continue.

The thing that really stood out to me is bolded here. Not every encounter with the police requires obedience to an officer. Up until you're committing a crime or involved in a serious emergency, that's really not something he should expect from just a casual encounter with someone. A lot of officers do seem to have that expectation, and it's one of the reasons why people just don't want to interact with them.

End result: people interacting with the police get nervous and defensive, and the encounter goes south, just like in this video..

[leitung]

The question I have is why do we have Border Patrol Checkpoints in New York, I mean seriously what are we worried that the Canadians are sending south that much that we need border patrol checkpoints?

[STED9R]

Black and white, both parties at fault. She was being a snooty fuck that doesn't care for authority, and the border agents couldn't keep composure when dealing with an obstinate ass.
Agents need retraining, a counseling letter and actual escalation training. Ms better than you needs to informed of reasons for check points and how to avoid confrontation.
They should have just told her flat out, your car is being searched, stand over here at x spot, you have been randomly chosen for spot check.
They should have check points.
They should search random cars.
They should do searches via profiling.
Sadly it's the world we live in. Freedom is great, but so is safety, and knowing someone is up doing that job to try and keep us safe.
Sure, there's bad shit that happens, that shouldn't happen. There's a limit for every person. Some bad shit that happens, is inexcusable, period. Yet, some, when having an open mind and understanding human psychology, can comprehend reactions.

Fuck, would seem like so many do not want ANY figures of authority, or at least have them walk around with blinders on being nothing more than for looks.
What do you honestly think would happen if every swinging dick that wore a badge didn't show up for work? Or, didn't respond to calls for help? Or, decided that chasing the bus load of whatever wasn't worth the energy? Or, realizing inspecting shipping containers and paperwork was to much effort? Or, seeing that group of younger adults doing bad but thinking that any contact with them, would just result in being called a bad cop so he just decides to look the other way and drive by.

Good think is, the stigma of those that continually points out all the bad cops/badges/contacts. All the while, being fully aware that all those negative encounters, are a single digit percentage of all the positive that occurs. But, some just can't accept that fact through clouded resentment or some sense of disobedience to correct.

[MadPick]

They should have check points.
They should search random cars.

This is the part that I have an issue with.

Would it be okay for the local cops here in Washington to set up a check point on Main St? Or I-5? And just search random cars and people that they thought looked suspicious?

That's WAY too close to a "police state" for my comfort level.

[finster]

Black and white, both parties at fault. She was being a snooty fuck that doesn't care for authority, and the border agents couldn't keep composure when dealing with an obstinate ass.
Agents need retraining, a counseling letter and actual escalation training. Ms better than you needs to informed of reasons for check points and how to avoid confrontation.
They should have just told her flat out, your car is being searched, stand over here at x spot, you have been randomly chosen for spot check.
They should have check points.
They should search random cars.
They should do searches via profiling.
Sadly it's the world we live in. Freedom is great, but so is safety, and knowing someone is up doing that job to try and keep us safe.
Sure, there's bad shit that happens, that shouldn't happen. There's a limit for every person. Some bad shit that happens, is inexcusable, period. Yet, some, when having an open mind and understanding human psychology, can comprehend reactions.

Fuck, would seem like so many do not want ANY figures of authority, or at least have them walk around with blinders on being nothing more than for looks.
What do you honestly think would happen if every swinging dick that wore a badge didn't show up for work? Or, didn't respond to calls for help? Or, decided that chasing the bus load of whatever wasn't worth the energy? Or, realizing inspecting shipping containers and paperwork was to much effort? Or, seeing that group of younger adults doing bad but thinking that any contact with them, would just result in being called a bad cop so he just decides to look the other way and drive by.

Good think is, the stigma of those that continually points out all the bad cops/badges/contacts. All the while, being fully aware that all those negative encounters, are a single digit percentage of all the positive that occurs. But, some just can't accept that fact through clouded resentment or some sense of disobedience to correct.

”Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.” -Ben Franklin

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis