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 Help settle a debate on General Mattis 
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Location: Seattle
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I say that even if Mattis rightly believed Trump was incompetent or if he clashed with Trump, Mattis should have chosen the USA over ego and NOT abandoned ship. If Trump is as bad as Mattis said, then we need competent people to REMAIN on deck and help steer this ship, NOT abandon it. If Mattis left because he feared being fired, then remain at your post until relieved, NOT abandon your post where you may be desperately needed.

A friend says Mattis was right for leaving a sinking ship, and not wanting to deal with Trump, to leave before Trump fired him.

How do you see this?


Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:26 pm
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I looked at this closely, and I'm sad to say I think Mattis got mad he lost on persuasion for a few pet issues and then he got sour grapes and decided to say screw it and quit. In the real world when you win some and lose some, you don't throw a temper tantum and take your ball and run home.

An ignoble and sad end to what otherwise was a good career for a soldier.

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If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto).
If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/
Quote:
“I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.”

https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738
Quote:
[Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"


Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:36 pm
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Alpine wrote:
I looked at this closely, and I'm sad to say I think Mattis got mad he lost on persuasion for a few pet issues and then he got sour grapes and decided to say screw it and quit. In the real world when you win some and lose some, you don't throw a temper tantum and take your ball and run home.

An ignoble and sad end to what otherwise was a good career for a soldier.


I agree with this 100%.... :bow:

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Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:38 pm
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He is a Marine not a Soldier. Big difference.

But you are right he should have not have left, but stayed and fought. I always suspected it was about staying in the Middle East or pulling out.


Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:52 pm
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Optics. Cant appear partial to anyone as a tribunal judge at gitmo. Gitmo will be at full capicity in short time. Same reason Trump publicly criticized the greatest public servant in our lifetime. Former Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Just look at how many sealed indictments accumulated in his time as AG. Its on pacer.gov. Or just look up sealed indictments. Compare to any year prior to 2016. He recused himself from the russia scam and did his job. Then resigned and Matthew Whittaker (Patriot)got turned lose as an "acting" AG(no congressional approval needed for "acting" positions(look at what "acting" DNI Richard Grenell did declassifying before congress approved Ratcliff, who they formerly REFUSED! Anyone but Grenell! And what Ratcliff is now declassing!!So funny! Now that Trump got him to lose his senate race(Sessions former seat he would have won on Trumps endorsement) he can be a prosecuting attorney at the tribunals. Along with Trey Gowdy.


Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:09 pm
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Nitro_Guns wrote:
Alpine wrote:
I looked at this closely, and I'm sad to say I think Mattis got mad he lost on persuasion for a few pet issues and then he got sour grapes and decided to say screw it and quit. In the real world when you win some and lose some, you don't throw a temper tantum and take your ball and run home.

An ignoble and sad end to what otherwise was a good career for a soldier.


I agree with this 100%.... :bow:

Me too.


Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:16 pm
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I think he turned soft. Dude has the military life down and the political side he couldnt handle

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Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:03 pm
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vic_b wrote:
Nitro_Guns wrote:
Alpine wrote:
I looked at this closely, and I'm sad to say I think Mattis got mad he lost on persuasion for a few pet issues and then he got sour grapes and decided to say screw it and quit. In the real world when you win some and lose some, you don't throw a temper tantum and take your ball and run home.

An ignoble and sad end to what otherwise was a good career for a soldier.


I agree with this 100%.... :bow:

Me too.


I concur with above assessment.


Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:48 pm
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Fwiw Mattis really got taken in by the Theranos scam. If you read the book not just watch the movie it's not great. Admittedly he is a bit player in the story but when his own colonels came to him saying things were fishy with Theranos he told them to back off and refused to do due diligence.


Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:18 pm
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Alpine wrote:
I looked at this closely, and I'm sad to say I think Mattis got mad he lost on persuasion for a few pet issues and then he got sour grapes and decided to say screw it and quit. In the real world when you win some and lose some, you don't throw a temper tantum and take your ball and run home.

An ignoble and sad end to what otherwise was a good career for a soldier.


Gen. Mattis got his pee pee slapped for wanting to play World Cop and Big Guv cheese projects. Took his ball and went home pouting.

Oh wells...m


Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:07 pm
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I read his book. He is NOT a compromiser. He does the best with what he's given, and if ordered to a position he'll do an awesome job. But he doesn't play politics. Like most good military leaders, he gathers info on what decision to make, then commits fully as anything less is unfair to those under him. This is simply not how things are done in Washington, D.C. and he couldn't reconcile it. No one ever "commits fully" to anything there. Everyone (else) can be bought out of their position with enough money or favors.

It would take something really rock solid to ever convince me he was on the take.

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Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:28 pm
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hkcavalier wrote:
I read his book. He is NOT a compromiser. He does the best with what he's given, and if ordered to a position he'll do an awesome job. But he doesn't play politics. Like most good military leaders, he gathers info on what decision to make, then commits fully as anything less is unfair to those under him. This is simply not how things are done in Washington, D.C. and he couldn't reconcile it. No one ever "commits fully" to anything there. Everyone (else) can be bought out of their position with enough money or favors.

It would take something really rock solid to ever convince me he was on the take.


I don't know the guy nor really about him (other than what I read in the Theranos book which is one possibly isolated incident). But other than reading his book, which frankly can say whatever he wants it to say, are you basing your opinion on anything else?


Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:27 am
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He was right to leave a sinking ship IMHO
Where you see ego, i see principles.


Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:31 am
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pharzon12 wrote:
hkcavalier wrote:
I read his book. He is NOT a compromiser. He does the best with what he's given, and if ordered to a position he'll do an awesome job. But he doesn't play politics. Like most good military leaders, he gathers info on what decision to make, then commits fully as anything less is unfair to those under him. This is simply not how things are done in Washington, D.C. and he couldn't reconcile it. No one ever "commits fully" to anything there. Everyone (else) can be bought out of their position with enough money or favors.

It would take something really rock solid to ever convince me he was on the take.


I don't know the guy nor really about him (other than what I read in the Theranos book which is one possibly isolated incident). But other than reading his book, which frankly can say whatever he wants it to say, are you basing your opinion on anything else?


I was in USMC green from 1994 to 2001. I never served under him but had some friends who had. They were able to corroborate his leadership style and other facts in the book.

My loyalty to the man isn't based on the book, it's based on past performance and a long history of being a straight shooter. Yes, it's not unheard of for someone like that to suddenly change once they reach the pinnacle of power and there isn't any oversight (other than their own integrity) any longer. I just haven't seen any evidence of it. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that.

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Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:54 am
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Mattis was the canary in the coal mine for a lot of reluctant and tepid Trump supporting active-duty servicemen and vets I know. Almost all of them got off the Trump train with Mattis, and took their votes with them.


Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:43 am
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