BATFE held meeting to discuss outdated regulations!

[TechnoWeenie]

Posed in closed-door meetings, the agency's inquiry follows a Trump administration directive to slash government rules.

What Gun Regulations Should be “Repealed or Replaced”? The ATF Wants to Know.

It's a start....

My concern is 'gun violence prevention organization'... Really? WTF do they know?

According to two people present at the ATF meeting with gun-violence prevention groups, people present expressed concern about Turk’s white paper, which quoted the Second Amendment on its title page. They asked whether its tone indicated that the firearms industry has too much influence at the ATF.

Yup, that's it. NRA telling the fedgov about that silly thing called the constitution....

[leadcounsel]

To the Trump critics on gun rights, apparently POTUS DJT has ordered the ATF to cut red tape and eliminate regulations (along with other agencies ordered to cut bureaucracy).

Looks like the ATF is reviewing out-dated rules and regulations with an eye to eliminate some, and there are plenty that serve no purpose. There should be as few laws as practical, and a strict review on what laws remain and only keep laws that serve a demonstrable proven record of legitimate public safety.

Here is a start for laws that serve no purpose other than to harass, frustrate, and confuse gun owners, and criminalize arbitrary nonsense.

* Silencers, suppressors. In an era of noise pollution, more populated shooting range locations, and wide-spread hearing loss, these have got to be de-regulated. We mandate mufflers for cars to reduce noise. We should at least allow shooters to easily buy suppressors for their guns. A home defense shooting could cost all in proximity permanent hearing loss. In other countries that are stricter gun control, suppressors are either available or mandated to reduce noise pollution.

* Arbitrary length of weapon classifications and designs. While the terms "handguns" and "longguns" are useful for classifications, they are woefull outdated for legal purposes. It's outrageous and nonsensical to have laws which criminalize putting a shoulder stock on a handgun, have a handgun over X number of inches, or a long-gun under X number of inches. Or an AR15 pistol which is illegal to shoulder, but an AR15 rifle that is legal to shoulder but only with X length barrel, and so forth. None of these laws serve a single articulate legitimate need. The world has "handguns" that shoot rifle rounds, and "longguns" that shoot pistol rounds, so these distinctions are so badly designed and outdated they should be eliminated. Handguns, for instance, are no more lethal with stocks or forward grips. And the definition states that it is meant to be fired one-handed. However, nobody in any firearms profession (ATF, military, law enforcement, etc.) trains primarily to shoot "one-handed" and in fact the most common training is a two handed grip on the handle. So it's woefully outdated. Pistols would actually do well to have a forward vertical grip to control them better for better accuracy, meaning greater public safety and less errant rounds. The same argument is made about pistol shoulder stocks, to increase accuracy meaning less errant rounds and greater public safety. Some lives have certainly been lost due to errant pistol rounds, and even 1 life is 1 too many on that regard, when it could have been controlled better. The whole legal distinction for criminal purposes needs to be eliminated as arbitrary, outdated, and unnecessary nonsense.

*922 - This law requiring a certain number of domestic or foreign parts is absurd. I can think of no other product with the same requirements. It's overly confusing and most gun owners either don't know or understand it.

That's a start. What unreasonable laws would you eliminated.

[Alpine]

Get rid of the import bans. I am actually very pissed Trump hasn't instantly rescinded the ban on repatriating the several-hundred thousand M1 Garands sitting in Korea waiting to come home. It was sop spiteful and petty of Obama to ban their repatriation. It's not as if gang-bangers will use them.... They are war relics!

It was an executive order. No idea why Trump doesn't knock that one out instantly.

[Mediumrarechicken]

To the Trump critics on gun rights, apparently POTUS DJT has ordered the ATF to cut red tape and eliminate regulations (along with other agencies ordered to cut bureaucracy).

Looks like the ATF is reviewing out-dated rules and regulations with an eye to eliminate some, and there are plenty that serve no purpose. There should be as few laws as practical, and a strict review on what laws remain and only keep laws that serve a demonstrable proven record of legitimate public safety.

Here is a start for laws that serve no purpose other than to harass, frustrate, and confuse gun owners, and criminalize arbitrary nonsense.

* Silencers, suppressors. In an era of noise pollution, more populated shooting range locations, and wide-spread hearing loss, these have got to be de-regulated. We mandate mufflers for cars to reduce noise. We should at least allow shooters to easily buy suppressors for their guns. A home defense shooting could cost all in proximity permanent hearing loss. In other countries that are stricter gun control, suppressors are either available or mandated to reduce noise pollution.

* Arbitrary length of weapon classifications and designs. While the terms "handguns" and "longguns" are useful for classifications, they are woefull outdated for legal purposes. It's outrageous and nonsensical to have laws which criminalize putting a shoulder stock on a handgun, have a handgun over X number of inches, or a long-gun under X number of inches. Or an AR15 pistol which is illegal to shoulder, but an AR15 rifle that is legal to shoulder but only with X length barrel, and so forth. None of these laws serve a single articulate legitimate need. The world has "handguns" that shoot rifle rounds, and "longguns" that shoot pistol rounds, so these distinctions are so badly designed and outdated they should be eliminated. Handguns, for instance, are no more lethal with stocks or forward grips. And the definition states that it is meant to be fired one-handed. However, nobody in any firearms profession (ATF, military, law enforcement, etc.) trains primarily to shoot "one-handed" and in fact the most common training is a two handed grip on the handle. So it's woefully outdated. Pistols would actually do well to have a forward vertical grip to control them better for better accuracy, meaning greater public safety and less errant rounds. The same argument is made about pistol shoulder stocks, to increase accuracy meaning less errant rounds and greater public safety. Some lives have certainly been lost due to errant pistol rounds, and even 1 life is 1 too many on that regard, when it could have been controlled better. The whole legal distinction for criminal purposes needs to be eliminated as arbitrary, outdated, and unnecessary nonsense.

*922 - This law requiring a certain number of domestic or foreign parts is absurd. I can think of no other product with the same requirements. It's overly confusing and most gun owners either don't know or understand it.

That's a start. What unreasonable laws would you eliminated.

That's about it on the atf side of things. I'd add full auto, but it has a snowballs chance in hell. If full auto was deregulated I probably wouldn't shoot it full auto very often anyways, too expensive to feed.

[Guns4Liberty]

To the Trump critics on gun rights, apparently POTUS DJT has ordered the ATF to cut red tape and eliminate regulations (along with other agencies ordered to cut bureaucracy).

Needs MOAR citations.

[Selador]

That's a start. What unreasonable laws would you eliminated.

How about not trying to make gun dealers out of people who sell more than a couple guns a year.

Or 'manufacturers' out of anyone who decides to modify a trigger or two.

And the FFL requirement that follows both of those...

[dreadi]

Don't forget about ITAR.

[snozzberries]

I agree I'm pissed the M1's haven't been re-imported. Trump and the Republicans haven't done a damn thing. Fuckin' useless they are. It's like paying for a hooker and reading books. Times a wasting! Get to fuckin'!

Pistols would actually do well to have a forward vertical grip to control them better for better accuracy, meaning greater public safety and less errant rounds.

What happens if you put this first thing on this second thing? What is it then?

[AR15L]

I agree I'm pissed the M1's haven't been re-imported. Trump and the Republicans haven't done a damn thing. Fuckin' useless they are. It's like paying for a hooker and reading books. Times a wasting! Get to fuckin'!

Pistols would actually do well to have a forward vertical grip to control them better for better accuracy, meaning greater public safety and less errant rounds.

What happens if you put this first thing on this second thing? What is it then?

http://www.waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=82790

[deadshot2]

I agree I'm pissed the M1's haven't been re-imported. Trump and the Republicans haven't done a damn thing. Fuckin' useless they are. It's like paying for a hooker and reading books. Times a wasting! Get to fuckin'!

Pistols would actually do well to have a forward vertical grip to control them better for better accuracy, meaning greater public safety and less errant rounds.

What happens if you put this first thing on this second thing? What is it then?

A Pistol that's impossible to holster

[sreyemj]

* Arbitrary length of weapon classifications and designs. While the terms "handguns" and "longguns" are useful for classifications, they are woefull outdated for legal purposes.

*922 - This law requiring a certain number of domestic or foreign parts is absurd..

Totally agree, eliminate these regulations and focus enforcement on things that matter.

[STED9R]

* Arbitrary length of weapon classifications and designs. While the terms "handguns" and "longguns" are useful for classifications, they are woefull outdated for legal purposes.

*922 - This law requiring a certain number of domestic or foreign parts is absurd..

Totally agree, eliminate these regulations and focus enforcement on things that matter.

Enforce things that matter..... like murder, robbery, assault and all the other things someone does wrong with a gun?
Maybe if they quit worrying and controlling lawful citizens, they'd have more time and resources to go after the bad guys. Novel concept, it's smart and efficient, not something the government does or want....

[Col_Temp]

* Arbitrary length of weapon classifications and designs. While the terms "handguns" and "longguns" are useful for classifications, they are woefull outdated for legal purposes.

*922 - This law requiring a certain number of domestic or foreign parts is absurd..

Totally agree, eliminate these regulations and focus enforcement on things that matter.

Enforce things that matter..... like murder, robbery, assault and all the other things someone does wrong with a gun?
Maybe if they quit worrying and controlling lawful citizens, they'd have more time and resources to go after the bad guys. Novel concept, it's smart and efficient, not something the government does or want....

Yeah but you really expect out bureaucratic bloated reps to actually do that????
That doesn't get you headlines or make it look like you are doing anything. It also pisses off the uninformed. Would be nice if someone with a brain actually started but I'm not holding my breathe.

To the OP, I see the likelihood of something meaningful happening to be about 0%. Laws once on the books seem to be almost impossible to get rid of, no matter how dumb!

[deadshot2]

* Arbitrary length of weapon classifications and designs. While the terms "handguns" and "longguns" are useful for classifications, they are woefull outdated for legal purposes.

*922 - This law requiring a certain number of domestic or foreign parts is absurd..

Totally agree, eliminate these regulations and focus enforcement on things that matter.

Enforce things that matter..... like murder, robbery, assault and all the other things someone does wrong with a gun?
Maybe if they quit worrying and controlling lawful citizens, they'd have more time and resources to go after the bad guys. Novel concept, it's smart and efficient, not something the government does or want....

Yeah but you really expect out bureaucratic bloated reps to actually do that????
That doesn't get you headlines or make it look like you are doing anything. It also pisses off the uninformed. Would be nice if someone with a brain actually started but I'm not holding my breathe.

To the OP, I see the likelihood of something meaningful happening to be about 0%. Laws once on the books seem to be almost impossible to get rid of, no matter how dumb!

People don't understand how government works. First they announce that they're going to revise regulations. Then a "meeting" is called to lay out the ground rules. Before anything is done they all work on scheduling subsequent meetings, try to figure out how to hold them at locations that have golf courses either on the premises or close by. Meeting times are then scheduled for right after lunch which is right after a round of golf.

First item on the agenda is who sits where at the table. Next they assign each person to a particular regulation to research, judge the impact if repealed, or come up with reasons to retain. All changes will require an assessment of any effect on government employment. If any jobs are to be eliminated or departments cut from the government organization chart, the regulation is then deemed essential.

Meetings take place on a regular basis with meaningless updates sent through the system after each meeting. If public input is required it's scheduled as quickly as possible so that the meeting date actually reaches the public before the notice does. In other words, the notice is distributed the morning of the meeting through "snail mail" if at all possible.


Just think, if regulations were "streamlined" and only needed or effective ones were kept on the books do you realize how small government would become? Look at all those people that would be unemployed and have no suitable skills for the real world.