Care about net neutrality?

[NWGunner]

"I swear, this is like Einstein arguing with a bunch of 3rd graders about how 2+2=4. Stop arguing. Listen. Learn. Say "thank you for teaching me." It's clear that there is no changing your opinions. It's just pissing me off."

"an analogy popped into my head. One you guys should understand..."

Wow, you really are a people person.

[edogg]

explain to me - simple or complex - why and how government regulating the internet

This is where you don't see it right. You think it's the government regulating the internet and fucking it up. It's not. It's the opposite. It's the government NOT regulating the internet; it's the government preventing corporations from regulating and fucking up the internet.

We HAVE freedom of speech, we HAVE the right to keep and bear arms. The government ensures these rights. We HAVE a good and working internet. Net Neutrality will ensure these rights. It'll prevent the ISP's from fucking shit up.

No you're wrong here. The whole Net Neutrality thing is to get the FCC to move data carried over the wires to Title 2. This means that the FCC would regulate the ISPs (already do) AND the content which goes along the backbone. This means that the FCC, and by extension, the Govt CAN regulate the internet.

While we have freedom of speech and the right to keep and bear arms, are those very things not under constant barrage? Remember the "fairness doctrine" that was being pushed a few years ago to stifle the conservative media outlets? Isn't there some kind of anti-gun legislation either introduced in congress or on a ballot every year? Govt does not ensure these rights. Govt is not about limiting itself. It always grows and intrudes.


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[mmalleck]

Holy shit as I was crawling into bed an analogy popped into my head. One you guys should understand. I'm gunna stay up late and write this out for you.

Imagine you have a favorite range you go to. Really, it's the only range you CAN go to. Because all the others were closed down, because the liberals went after them. They came after the ones in the city, they passed bullshit laws to force them out. Crap about needing a permit that's impossible to get.

But you've still got your 1 range, so you are happy. It's nice. Not too busy. You can shoot rifle, pistol, shotgun. 50 yard, 100 yard, 200 yard rifle. You can shoot all calibers, just no exploding targets. Sorry. Pistol range is great to. You pay your $15, and you go in and shoot any guns, and any distance. You realize what a blast it is, so you bring in more guns, different calibers, different bullet weights. You shoot all day long. Still, the range isn't too busy. Always room for more people. Everything is in good repair. The range makes enough money to survive.

Eventually the range decides they aren't making enough money. One day the range owners get greedy and decide they want even more money. They realize they are the only range you can go to. They have a monopoly. So they implement a new pricing plan. $10 per gun. Sure this work great for some people. They only bring their 1 rifle to the range. They save $5 per trip. But for 95% of everybody else, now it costs $20, or $30. Or more. Still, lots of room for everybody.

Then they decide that since the can of worms has been opened, to expand this innovative plans. They want to innovate some more. They start to charge per distance. $5 for the 50 yard, $5 for the 100 yard, $5 for the 200 yard. For pistols, same thing. $5 for 7 yards, $5 for 20 yards, $5 for 25 yards. Still, lots of room for everybody.

That's good, even more money. But time for more "innovation". Pay per caliber. Pay $5 for .22. $10 for .308. $20 for .50. It's only fair, right? You should pay for the services you are getting. Now it's costs you $150 to go to the range. You haven't gotten any additional service, you just pay more.

Net Neutrality says "No fucking up the rifle range." "$15 fee to have fun". The ISP cries out "OMG you are stifling our innovation!" There is no innovation here with regards to the rifle range, the only innovation lies in their billing plans and ways to fuck you over. When you vote for Net Neutrality, when you vote for Government Regulation, you are voting to keep shit as-is, and not fuck shit up. Do you want a $150 range fee?

THIS is an analogy that is factual.

This was good for a laugh, thank you for that. 1st mistake - trusting that the government would actually work in the people's best interest, and solve a problem.

You saw how the IRS was weaponized to target Tea Party conservative groups by denying or delaying (501)c applications. What would hold back the party in power to shut down certain sites, delay approvals, or slow access to a crawl to certain Web sites. How about the Fairness Doctrine applied to the Internet? Sounds awesome doesn't it - may as well live in China. Corruption, fees, regulation, filtering, limitations, POWER.

If you can, get in touch with your dark side Snozz, then go a thousand shades darker into government corruption, taxation, and control.

The reason they want Net Neutrality is because there is unfettered freedom of speech, freedom to share information, free VoIP they can't tax, on and on. The key word is freedom, and our political class can't stand it. They will bury sites with regulations and frivolous fines as punishment for speaking out for or against "Global Warming", Planned Parenthood, Gun Control, Common Sense this and that, fake news, etc.

How much is this new regulation going to cost us? I doubt it will be cheap.

The government is not a high tech company. Many large government agency systems are 40-50 years old. COBOL, assembly language, Fortran, systems using floppy drives. And you want to put them in charge of more regulation?

How Title II Harms Consumers and Innovators
http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... vators.pdf

Last edited by mmalleck on Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

[snozzberries]

"I swear, this is like Einstein arguing with a bunch of 3rd graders about how 2+2=4. Stop arguing. Listen. Learn. Say "thank you for teaching me." It's clear that there is no changing your opinions. It's just pissing me off."

"an analogy popped into my head. One you guys should understand..."

Wow, you really are a people person.

Yeah sorry about that. I got quite frustrated and riled up. It comes from working with people too much. Like home-owners arguing with the plumber. Or people who royally fucked up their computer, and are now paying me to fix it, arguing with me about how to fix it. Random dumbasses arguing with their mechanic. 18 year old arguing with their college professor. Everybody can have an opinion, but eventually you need to defer to the experts.

An example of deferring to the experts is when I ask for help on Reloading. I don't know anything about it. I ask for help, ask questions, take notes, and learn from the resident experts. Another example are my threads on precision shooting.

But Computers and the Internet are something I know a shit ton about. I've made a career of it. 3 decades of experience, starting when I was 8. I've worked for an ISP. I've been in a Meet-me room. I fully understand networking, BGP routing. I understand the Cogent vs Comcast dispute. I understand throttling, and blocking. I'm deploying QOS at my place. I block websites via DNS and a pihole. All my internet HTTP/HTTPS browsing runs over a Site-To-Site VPN. All my cell phone activity is encrypted with a VPN. I offer my neighbors free WiFi, while protecting my own network. I built my own router out of a SuperMicro computer and PFSense. I AM the expert.

[TINCANBANDIT]

I think some people here have lost faith in the free market.....if an ISP starts fucking with access to the internet, the consumers will move to another provider.

The market will decide what works, don't let the government get their filthy hands on this

[snozzberries]

I think some people here have lost faith in the free market.....if an ISP starts fucking with access to the internet, the consumers will move to another provider.

The market will decide what works, don't let the government get their filthy hands on this

There is no competition for broadband internet. There is no other provider to switch to. That's the problem. I'd prefer competition, but since there is none, we need regulation.

[mmalleck]

There are 4,459 broadband providers according to this Article released just last month.

http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... vators.pdf

Thumbs up on the Free Market TINCANBANDIT

[Selador]

There are 4,459 broadband providers according to this Article released just last month.

http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... vators.pdf

Thumbs up on the Free Market TINCANBANDIT

And only ONE of them, with affordable prices, (If you call 80 dollars a month for 3 megs download, affordable)... serves my area. A LARGE area.

Yeah, we have choices.

Eat. Or go online.

The opponents of net neutrality, who are feeding all yall with all of this crap about government interference, want all YALL to have the same choice!

[mmalleck]

If you think the government will make it cheaper and better, carry on...

[TINCANBANDIT]

I think some people here have lost faith in the free market.....if an ISP starts fucking with access to the internet, the consumers will move to another provider.

The market will decide what works, don't let the government get their filthy hands on this

There is no competition for broadband internet. There is no other provider to switch to. That's the problem. I'd prefer competition, but since there is none, we need regulation.

So are you saying I have no choice when I sign up for broadband??? please explain

Is there high demand for fast internet? I think the answer is YES with a capital Y......that means that someone out there, hoping to get rich, is working on the next best mousetrap. So there will be an alternative soon (WiMax, Fiber Optic, Satellite).....but instead let's cripple competition and get the government involved, cause that always works right?

[edogg]

There are 4,459 broadband providers according to this Article released just last month.

http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... vators.pdf

Thumbs up on the Free Market TINCANBANDIT

And only ONE of them, with affordable prices, (If you call 80 dollars a month for 3 megs download, affordable)... serves my area. A LARGE area.

Yeah, we have choices.

Eat. Or go online.

The opponents of net neutrality, who are feeding all yall with all of this crap about government interference, want all YALL to have the same choice!

If the government wanted to increase your broadband choice out in the boonies, they'd contract with a carrier to install more infrastructure.

Sorry that the free market says there's not enough users in your area to make such a huge investment. If broadband was a consideration for where you want to live, you could move closer in to civilization.


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[Selador]

I give up.

I don't even have a dog in this fight. I have tried telling you guys that what you are asking for, is what I already have.

You have made up your minds. Your emotions are involved. And you'll rationalize any way you can, to ignore the facts. Even when you make my own point for me.

This is not about the government taking control. The gov is already in charge. They are not 'going to' take charge. They already are in charge. This is about removing any remaining semblance of fairness and letting the corporations take what is there, and manipulate it to get more and more profits but for the same service or less.

I'm out. Enjoy the boiling pot...