Senate Blocks GOP Health Bill

[bigzdawg]

Except there was no 16-20 million who'd lose "coverage."

Understand this: medicaid is not health insurance, it is a secured loan program that lowballs doctors and takes everything you own when you die. It's so bad that most doctors will not accept it. And if you can't find a decent doctor to accept it, does it really functionally exist in a meaningful way for the people on it?

Even the Seattle Slimes admits what a steaming pile of crap medicaid is.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-new ... ter-death/

So please stop repeating the bogus line about millions losing coverage.

This.

Eliminating a person off of a $10,000 deductible policy is NOT effectively doing anything against that person.

It is more like comparing a pay-day loan, with 3% weekly interest, to a traditional bank loan with a 7% annual interest.

Both are loans. That is where the comparison ends.

Obamacare is the Pay-Day loan of health insurance.

So yes, voting to eliminate this failure simply forces Congress to create a better plan.

I respectfully disagree with those above who supported McCain's actions.

The result is failure. Passing the vote would have kept negotiations going. Now, no more negotiations.

Failure.

Brought to us by John McCain.

[Jonathan Brown]

Who the fuck deleted my reply and why?

[wilmermj]

Who the fuck deleted my reply and why?

I demand a repost!

[MadPick]

Who the fuck deleted my reply and why?

I did, and because it was a personal attack. You didn't address the issue, you attacked the person -- and that's how threads go off the rails.

Check out #1:
WaGuns Members Code of Conduct

[Jonathan Brown]

I simply stated that people with his viewpoint are what's wrong with today's society. It's not like I called him a dipshit or anything like that, I wouldn't do that.

[Alpine]

Focus on logic rather than the person.

We are impressed by reasoning, logic and facts, not by indignation.

When I see hard data and statistics that are rigorous and stand up to scrutiny I am always willing to change my mind.

[bigzdawg]

I simply stated that people with his viewpoint are what's wrong with today's society. It's not like I called him a dipshit or anything like that, I wouldn't do that.

I never saw what was posted, but if it was about me, you JB will have to get in a very, very long line and bring it more than just calling me a dipshit.

But I don't know if it was about me so I am not telling you to get in line.

I do stand by everything I said about Obamacare.


Because something that cannot financially support itself will eventually collapse.

Economic reality is one cold bitch.

[Jonathan Brown]

I stated that I did NOT call anyone a dipshit.

Obamacare is a steaming pile of shit. But just dumping it without a legitimate replacement that does NOT leave 20 million folks without insurance, is totally irresponsible. If these idiots would quit trying to "one up" each other and get to work on fixing the faults of Obamacare instead of just wanting to say "SEE!!! WE REPEALED IT!!! AREN'T WE GREAT? " something productive just might happen.

What is a cold bitch is leaving people to die with no health coverage while we waste billions fighting wars we have no business being in.

[bigzdawg]

If it is worthless, then continuing the facade of saying it is insurance is a lie. Because it does not do what insurance is supposed to do, take care of medical problems after meeting a moderate deductible.

By eliminating the fake Obamacare insurance now, it gives time to Congress to actually get serious and come up with something better.

If Obamacare was an NFL team, their record would be 1-15, and their stadium beer would be $20 a cup. Would YOU participate?

Having a $10,000 deductible and no stop-loss provision makes the "insurance" completely worthless.

"Like tits on a boar" worthless.

Yet the Democrats and liars (ok I repeated myself) throw up the stupid concept that this type of policy is "insurance". It is a sick joke.

The only poor who gain a benefit have been put on Medicaid. That is the general answer from Dems, yet most doctors in America today either highly restrict the number of Medicaid patients or refuse to see them at all.

So what do they really have? "Insurance" that few medical professionals will accept. Unless you get a government subsidy to pay for your premium, you are being screwed with higher premiums, rising at insane rates of 20% - 30% per year, or even much more (116% in Arizona).

Meanwhile, for the average working family that does not have employer offered health insurance, no answers on the horizon, except to quit insurance all together and just pay the Obamacare fines instead. Oh, and don't ever get sick or have an accident.


Thanks Democrats, this is ALL your shit.

[Alpine]

I stated that I did NOT call anyone a dipshit.

Obamacare is a steaming pile of shit. But just dumping it without a legitimate replacement that does NOT leave 20 million folks without insurance, is totally irresponsible. If these idiots would quit trying to "one up" each other and get to work on fixing the faults of Obamacare instead of just wanting to say "SEE!!! WE REPEALED IT!!! AREN'T WE GREAT? " something productive just might happen.

What is a cold bitch is leaving people to die with no health coverage while we waste billions fighting wars we have no business being in.

Again, medicaid is not insurance. So there are no "20 million folks" who'd be "without insurance" anymore than they wouldn't have had insurance prior to the ACA anyway.

Some required reading on this:
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-new ... ter-death/

The way Prins saw it, that meant health insurance via Medicaid is hardly “free” for Washington residents 55 or older. It’s a loan, one whose payback requirements aren’t well advertised. And it penalizes people who, despite having a low income, have managed to keep a home or some savings they hope to pass to heirs, Prins said.

With an estimated 223,000 adults seeking health insurance headed toward Washington’s expanded Medicaid program over the next three years, the state’s estate-recovery rules, which allow collection of nearly all medical expenses, have come under fire.

Medicaid, in keeping with federal policy, has long tapped into estates. But because most low-income adults without disabilities could not qualify for typical medical coverage through Medicaid, recovery primarily involved expenses for nursing homes and other long-term care.

The federal Affordable Care Act (ACA) changed that. Now many more low-income residents will qualify for Medicaid, called Apple Health in Washington state.

But if they qualify for Medicaid, they’re not eligible for tax credits to subsidize a private health plan under the ACA, which requires all adults to have health insurance by March 31.

Lets recap: there are less people with ACTUAL HEALTH INSURANCE after the ACA than before hand. Why? Because their health insurance plans were either canceled by the ACA's crazy requirements or their plan prices jacked up so high they were forced onto Medicaid which is NOT HEALTH INSURANCE.

Now, as to how medicaid works, more required, basic reading.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db195.pdf

The percentage of physicians accepting new privately insured patients
(84.7%) was greater than the percentage accepting new Medicaid
patients (68.9%).

Even after a massive reimbursement rate bump, Medicaid is STILL lowballing doctors so much that look at that HUGE disparity!
Also, that's a nation-wide average. Some states like NJ go as low as 38%.
38%. Let that sink in. Even if medicaid was insurance, which it isn't, how good would it be if a super-majority of doctors wouldn't take it?

[Jonathan Brown]

Don't make me say it..... :)

One definition of the word insurance is as follows:

A thing providing protection against a possible eventuality.

Medicaid is insurance, not matter what you choose to call it.

Kicking people off of Medicaid is nothing more than a death sentence for MANY. Does your party support killing old people and people with disabilities?

Toss in huge tax breaks for rich people, and our founding fathers would roll in their graves.

I know arguing with you on this is gonna go nowhere.

And don't tell me what is required reading. In the last ten years I have buried both my parents after long illnesses, and I have a lot of experience with the system, from that experience.

[Alpine]

Don't make me say it..... :)

One definition of the word insurance is as follows:

A thing providing protection against a possible eventuality.

Medicaid is insurance, not matter what you choose to call it.

Kicking people off of Medicaid is nothing more than a death sentence for MANY. Does your party support killing old people and people with disabilities?

Toss in huge tax breaks for rich people, and our founding fathers would roll in their graves.

I know arguing with you on this is gonna go nowhere.

And don't tell me what is required reading.

You had to dig deep for the SECOND one, huh?

in·sur·ance
inˈSHo͝orəns/Submit
noun
1.
a practice or arrangement by which a company or government agency provides a guarantee of compensation for specified loss, damage, illness, or death in return for payment of a premium.
"many new borrowers take out insurance against unemployment or sickness"
synonyms: indemnity, indemnification, assurance, (financial) protection, security, coverage
"insurance for his new car"
2.
a thing providing protection against a possible eventuality.
"adherence to high personal standards of conduct is excellent insurance against personal problems"

Lets look at closer context via Merriam-Webster:

Definition of health insurance
: insurance against loss through illness of the insured; especially : insurance providing compensation for medical expenses

Genuine, actual compensation, as a rule, DOESN'T GET CLAWED BACK LATER AS A NORMAL TERM, unless there is fraud.

When you claw something back, that's called a LOAN. I can't think of any insurance company that comes calling for claims paybacks as a normal course of insurance policy administration. GEICO? State Farm? Farmers? American Family? Show me ONE company that does that.

But lets ignore that for just a second, you insist that not giving people MEDICAID will actively sentence them to death, and then you even threw in a reference to the founders (which is ironic given the lack of entitlements and welfare present in the early days of the nation).

On the other hand, I can easily argue that given the low acceptance rate for medicaid by doctors, medicaid is actually what's killing people because many doctors will not accept it.

Imagine if you took away someone's cash and handed them a credit card that would only work at 38% of grocery stores? Depending on where they live they might very well be going hungry despite your well-intentioned entitlement program.

It's the same thing with medicaid. In many places in the US, nearly half of doctors DO NOT ACCEPT IT. So what use is medicaid if the vast majority of decent health-care professionals won't take it? And you know that it's not the top-rated docs who are accepting medicaid given their low reimbursement rate... I know a lot of docs and the usual context is that medicaid care is one step above servicing prisons or "free" public health clinics for quality of docs.

Look at this map!


So given the low quality of care that medicaid allows for, and the low acceptance rate it has, I am going to argue that by expanding medicaid it is actually the democrats who are "sentencing people to death."

[Jonathan Brown]

Your logic defies the imagination.

Nobody denies that Obamacare is broken. They need to find a way to fix it that doesn't hurt people. Period. Plain and simple. End of fucking story.

Right wing cockamamie bullshit. How did this country get so fucked up? Too many people picked a SIDE, when moderation and middle ground was the path that should have been taken.

[Alpine]

Your logic defies the imagination.

Nobody denies that Obamacare is broken. They need to find a way to fix it that doesn't hurt people. Period. Plain and simple. End of fucking story.

Right wing cockamamie bullshit. How did this country get so fucked up? Too many people picked a SIDE, when moderation and middle ground was the path that should have been taken.

More people are being harmed with the medicaid expansion under the ACA than before it.

You want to save the most lives possible ASAP? Straight repeal with no replacement and at least you'll have more people with actual insurance that doctors will accept than you do now. Medicaid is useless if you can't find someone who will take it.

You can work on changing things later, but at the very least we need to immediately revert to pre-ACA status right away.

Because the other casualty is fewer people choosing medical care as a profession. And it takes decades to reverse that given the education paths. Do you understand how much the ACA truly screwed us? We lost a a huge part of an entire generation of doctors coming up.
Give the existing holdout baby-boomer docs a few more years to retire and you will see how horrifying this shortage truly is and will be.
The alternative to the shortage is going full-Venezuela and sending out government paddywagon and grabbing high school grads off the street and putting them through undergrad, med school and residency the way Venezuela is now doing with farm workers because, surprise surprise, the socialist regime is having a LABOR SHORTAGE.
Want to go full Venezuela?

Last edited by Alpine on Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Jonathan Brown]

More hogwash. Your plan is mean and horrific.

Point. Read it:

These last plans Congress floated would have pulled Medicare coverage from millions of folks currently on it.

Answer this:

What would you do with those folks?

Maybe just take them out and shoot them, so they don't have to die a slow death?