Senate Blocks GOP Health Bill

[Alpine]

And again, get it though your head, just because someone has medicaid or that medicaid is present does not mean anything because many doctors don't accept medicaid and even more doctors stopped accepting new medicaid patients after the expansion. And also given the low reimbursement rate the quality of care that the few medicaid patients who DID get care got was substandard or from docs you wouldn't trust your worst enemy with.

[Alpine]

True compassion lies in repealing the ACA right away.

Under the ACA, cash strapped docs who accept medicaid don't have the resources to do condition and liability-free pro-bono care and docs who don't take medicaid are practically forbidden for liabilittle reasons because the government doesn't like docs shaming them with better free care than their lowballing medicaid setups.

I know orthos who used to do pro bono hip replacements for seniors and now they can't thanks to the ACA's thousands of new regulations.

So in reality the elderly are worse off.

Overall though I'd ask the obvious question, why are you here posting in this discussion if you refuse to discuss it? It seems strange. Not trying to be insulting, just curious.

We ARE having a discussion. Because I point out the faults in your logic and you obvious lack of compassion for the elderly, does not make that a non fact. What IS strange is that you think anyone who disagrees with you is automatically void of any value, so you keep harping on the same ultra right wing gibberish.

You are ignoring 90% of my points and documented evidence/sourced and focusing instead on empty emotional appeals.

Address the numeric facts of the low medicaid reimbursement rate.
Address the numeric facts of low amounts of doctors accepting medicaid.
Address the numeric facts of our declining doctor and medical student population.

Your facts are a smoke screen to the real issue.
Did they or did they NOT, try to drop millions of people off Medicaid to raise money, all the while offering tax cuts to the rich?
Come on now, you can admit it. It won't hurt. Its a FACT. You can do it.

I've already posted the data about medicaid reimbursement rates and how it has negatively impacted pro bono care.

Until you actually address the numbers and realize people are getting less actual care under the ACA than they were before continued discussion is meaningless.

Stop the hyperbole and address the myriad links and sourced material that has debunked every point you've made here.

Cut the emotion and stick to the facts.

[OhShoot!]

PMB sent me this the other day. Thought it was relevant.

[Jonathan Brown]

Just to help the two of you out.....we are talking about people already ON Medicaid, getting care, who would be suddenly OFF Medicaid, with nowhere to get help.

Is it right to kick them off? What did they do to you? why such animosity towards them? Do they not exist in your world?

[Alpine]

Again, just because someone is on Medicaid does NOT mean they are getting care or quality care. Stop equating medicaid with care. They are not the same. Did you read the report? Did you see the map?

There is no animosity here. These are hard facts.

[Jonathan Brown]

The topic of this thread is Senate Blocks GOP Health Bill. It was blocked because it was bullshit from the start. Crafted in secrecy, thrust upon members of congress who were given little or no time to negotiate any changes. Mitch the bitch should be ashamed of himself.

Some of you fail to read between the lines. All you see is REPEAL, REPEAL. WE as Americans don't repeal people's lives. We USED to compromise legislation and got things done. We are now neutered by partisian bickering and one upmanship. Obamacare needs repair. Repair it and leave things be until solutions are made. How hard is that? I guess pretty hard, when all the GOP could come up with was the pieces of shit they came up with.

People like the two of you don't realize that people on Medicaid are under a burden to repay if they can. They end up losing their homes and property. Uncle Same puts liens on their shit. It is a last resort program for these people who have nowhere else to go for help.

[Alpine]

The topic of this thread is Senate Blocks GOP Health Bill. It was blocked because it was bullshit from the start. Crafted in secrecy, thrust upon members of congress who were given little or no time to negotiate any changes. Mitch the bitch should be ashamed of himself.

Some of you fail to read between the lines. All you see is REPEAL, REPEAL. WE as Americans don't repeal people's lives. We USED to compromise legislation and got things done. We are now neutered by partisian bickering and one upmanship. Obamacare needs repair. Repair it and leave things be until solutions are made. How hard is that? I guess pretty hard, when all the GOP could come up with was the pieces of shit they came up with.

People like the two of you don't realize that people on Medicaid are under a burden to repay if they can. They end up losing their homes and property. Uncle Same puts liens on their shit. It is a last resort program for these people who have nowhere else to go for help.

Again, the ACA's insane requirements forced people off of decent private catastrophic plans or medium grade ongoing care plans and forced them into medicaid. More people before the ACA had actual insurance than they do now and also given how medicaid works at stifling pro bono care and quality care, more people got overall better health outcomes in the US before the ACA than now. The numbers don't lie.

[Jonathan Brown]

Again.

Did they or did they NOT, try to drop millions of people off Medicaid to raise money, all the while offering tax cuts to the rich?

[Jonathan Brown]

The topic of this thread is Senate Blocks GOP Health Bill. It was blocked because it was bullshit from the start. Crafted in secrecy, thrust upon members of congress who were given little or no time to negotiate any changes. Mitch the bitch should be ashamed of himself.

Some of you fail to read between the lines. All you see is REPEAL, REPEAL. WE as Americans don't repeal people's lives. We USED to compromise legislation and got things done. We are now neutered by partisian bickering and one upmanship. Obamacare needs repair. Repair it and leave things be until solutions are made. How hard is that? I guess pretty hard, when all the GOP could come up with was the pieces of shit they came up with.

People like the two of you don't realize that people on Medicaid are under a burden to repay if they can. They end up losing their homes and property. Uncle Same puts liens on their shit. It is a last resort program for these people who have nowhere else to go for help.

Again, the ACA's insane requirements forced people off of decent private catastrophic plans or medium grade ongoing care plans and forced them into medicaid. More people before the ACA had actual insurance than they do now and also given how medicaid works at stifling pro bono care and quality care, more people got overall better health outcomes in the US before the ACA than now. The numbers don't lie.

That's the part you don't get. Obviously there are things that need fixing. You don't blow up 16 million people to fix it. YOU FIX IT.

[Alpine]

Again.

Did they or did they NOT, try to drop millions of people off Medicaid to raise money, all the while offering tax cuts to the rich?

I will specifically give you succinct, direct answers to these questions when you go back and answer my points that, with documented sources, debunked your claims and that you have steadfastly ignored.

I find it ironic and rude that you refused to address reasoned and supported arguments that soldier refute your points, but then demand others answer questions you pose.

[Jonathan Brown]

I asked you first, nyah nyah nyah.....

Did they or did they NOT, try to drop millions of people off Medicaid to raise money, all the while offering tax cuts to the rich?

[Jonathan Brown]

All you misdirection with your skewed and pointedly picked "facts" mean nothing if you don't answer my question.

[MadPick]

Go easy, fellers.

JB, in principle I have a problem with the argument that, "repealing Obamacare will leave X million people without insurance" and the heart twinges that result.

Let's say that we passed a law that mandated that the federal government pay everyone's mortgages. Seven years later, the government tries to repeal it . . . and the CBO says, "X million people are going to lose their houses because they can't afford to suddenly make the payments."

Would that make the original law justified? I don't think so.

[Jonathan Brown]

That doesn't address my question. It has nothing to do with justification. If they did pay those mortgages, would it be right to kick them out so you could give tax breaks to the rich? Or would it be best to find some solution that wouldn't leave them on the street? We are dealing with things that have been done already. We have no time machines.

I just want to hear his answer, or you or anyone's answer to my question.

Did they or did they NOT, try to drop millions of people off Medicaid to raise money, all the while offering tax cuts to the rich?

Its just a yes or no answer.

[MadPick]

That doesn't address my question. It has nothing to do with justification. If they did pay those mortgages, would it be right to kick them out so you could give tax breaks to the rich? Or would it be best to find some solution that wouldn't leave them on the street?

If giving them the original mortgage money was unjustified, then I don't think a "soft landing" is necessary, and I don't think it matters what you do with the money you save -- tax breaks for the rich, money for the poor, whatever. What you do with the money has nothing to do with the problem you're fixing.

As to your question that you can't get answered, I would give you a direct answer but I'm not tracking the issue closely enough to really know what I'm talking about. I just know that just because someone gives you $20 for Christmas this year, doesn't mean that they owe you $20 for Christmas next year.