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QB is probably the top position you cannot compare based on raw stats. Any true fan would know this.

The game isn't even the same today as it was just a couple decades ago. QB ratings are evidence of this. Like I said, QBs today have inflated ratings by about 10-20 points vs. what they would have had 2-4 decades ago. There is a lot more passing, more sophisticated offenses, and big changes in the rules hamstring defenders (e.g. no downfield contact with receivers, almost no hitting the QB, etc.). I accidentally watched a little bit of a game a few weeks ago at a bar - it was more interesting than staring at the menu. The QB got hit on a run and it was a penalty because the hit was a millisecond after his knee was down. Total garbage call but that's what the NFL is all about. It's no wonder that QBs can sit in the pocket and pile up 400-500 yard games or routinely scramble for 20 yards and slide to a stop untouched...

Out of curiosity, I've just compared their stats to see who would fare better as a pure athlete. Clearly it's Cunningham, given the serious handicaps he faced in the 1980s (worse team, favorable rules and offenses for modern QBs, etc.). And Cunningham's first year was only a partial year played so his stats aren't even really fair on that aspect as it's missing about 10 games.

Anyway, Cunningham's personal first 6 years stats were/are nearly indistinguishable from Wilsons on key aspects (note Randell only played in 1/3rd of his rookie season games so it's not even a very fair comparable metric). Playing for the worst team in the conference in the 1980s he was every bit as good as Wilson is playing for a dominant team now.

By year 6, both were 3 time pro-bowlers as well.

Best cherry picked stats in any season in first 6 years:

Cunningham - 11/5 team record, 30 TDs, 3808 yds passing, best game 238 yards, completion 58%, longest pass 95 yards, 7 yards/attempt, 16 yards/catch, game winning drives 16, worst/most INTs in a season 16, total INTs 71. Rushing yards ~3500, rushing average 8 yds/attempt, long 52 yds, ave/game 58 yards. Total fumbles ~60.

Wilson - 13/3 team record + team superbowl win and team superbowl loss, 34 TDs, 4219 yds passing, best game 282 yards, completion 68%, longest pass 80 yards, 9 yards/attempt, 12 yards/catch, game winning drives 23, worst/most INTs in a season 11, total INTs 51 (plus a SB losing INT at the goal line - one of the worst INTs in FB history). Rushing yards ~2900, rushing average 7 yds/attempt, long 53 yds, ave/game 53 yards. Total fumbles ~53.

Note the Eagles were terrible early in Cunningham's career with losing records his first 3 years, in near last place or last place, and had minimal significant talent. It was almost all on Cunningham's shoulders. In 1983 the Eagles were 5-11, in 1984 they were 7-9, and for the first three years with Cunningham didn't have 10 wins in a season until 1988 when the team finally got more talent.

OTOH, Wilson has been the benefactor of never playing on a losing team, which means he had significant support on offense and defense which helps his stats significantly. Worst season record Wilson has had is 10 wins. The Seahawks had the best players in many positions on offense and defense for much of Wilsons tenure, which really bumps his stats. Seahawks were already rebuilding with Carroll and 7-9 in 2010 and 2011 the season before Wilson, and thereafter 10 game wins/season.

Given the fact that Cunningham did that 20+ years ago, he was as good or better then than Wilson is today, giving the clear edge to athleticism and ability to Cunningham, due to the advances at the skilled position and rule changes and more widespread talent the Seahawks/Wilson enjoys now.

Cunningham was also noticeably faster and more agile than Wilson, and that was decades ago. I think his 40 speed was around .2 faster.

Cunningham did more with less, turned around a garbage team and getting them to the playoffs 3 seasons in a row, and was faster and posted nearly as good of stats with far less talent 3 decades ago.

If you think Wilson is a better QB or raw athlete than Cunningham (and I hated the Eagles and have no love for Cunningham) then you're smoking crack.

leadcounsel wrote:QB is probably the top position you cannot compare based on raw stats. Any true fan would know this.

The game isn't even the same today as it was just a couple decades ago. QB ratings are evidence of this. Like I said, QBs today have inflated ratings by about 10-20 points vs. what they would have had 2-4 decades ago. There is a lot more passing, more sophisticated offenses, and big changes in the rules hamstring defenders (e.g. no downfield contact with receivers, almost no hitting the QB, etc.). I accidentally watched a little bit of a game a few weeks ago at a bar - it was more interesting than staring at the menu. The QB got hit on a run and it was a penalty because the hit was a millisecond after his knee was down. Total garbage call but that's what the NFL is all about. It's no wonder that QBs can sit in the pocket and pile up 400-500 yard games or routinely scramble for 20 yards and slide to a stop untouched...

Out of curiosity, I've just compared their stats to see who would fare better as a pure athlete. Clearly it's Cunningham, given the serious handicaps he faced in the 1980s (worse team, favorable rules and offenses for modern QBs, etc.). And Cunningham's first year was only a partial year played so his stats aren't even really fair on that aspect as it's missing about 10 games.

Anyway, Cunningham's personal first 6 years stats were/are nearly indistinguishable from Wilsons on key aspects (note Randell only played in 1/3rd of his rookie season games so it's not even a very fair comparable metric). Playing for the worst team in the conference in the 1980s he was every bit as good as Wilson is playing for a dominant team now.

By year 6, both were 3 time pro-bowlers as well.

Best cherry picked stats in any season in first 6 years:

Cunningham - 11/5 team record, 30 TDs, 3808 yds passing, best game 238 yards, completion 58%, longest pass 95 yards, 7 yards/attempt, 16 yards/catch, game winning drives 16, worst/most INTs in a season 16, total INTs 71. Rushing yards ~3500, rushing average 8 yds/attempt, long 52 yds, ave/game 58 yards. Total fumbles ~60.

Wilson - 13/3 team record + team superbowl win and team superbowl loss, 34 TDs, 4219 yds passing, best game 282 yards, completion 68%, longest pass 80 yards, 9 yards/attempt, 12 yards/catch, game winning drives 23, worst/most INTs in a season 11, total INTs 51 (plus a SB losing INT at the goal line - one of the worst INTs in FB history). Rushing yards ~2900, rushing average 7 yds/attempt, long 53 yds, ave/game 53 yards. Total fumbles ~53.

Note the Eagles were terrible early in Cunningham's career with losing records his first 3 years, in near last place or last place, and had minimal significant talent. It was almost all on Cunningham's shoulders. In 1983 the Eagles were 5-11, in 1984 they were 7-9, and for the first three years with Cunningham didn't have 10 wins in a season until 1988 when the team finally got more talent.

OTOH, Wilson has been the benefactor of never playing on a losing team, which means he had significant support on offense and defense which helps his stats significantly. Worst season record Wilson has had is 10 wins. The Seahawks had the best players in many positions on offense and defense for much of Wilsons tenure, which really bumps his stats. Seahawks were already rebuilding with Carroll and 7-9 in 2010 and 2011 the season before Wilson, and thereafter 10 game wins/season.

Given the fact that Cunningham did that 20+ years ago, he was as good or better then than Wilson is today, giving the clear edge to athleticism and ability to Cunningham, due to the advances at the skilled position and rule changes Wilson enjoys now.

Cunningham was also noticeably faster and more agile than Wilson, and that was decades ago. I think his 40 speed was around .2 faster.

Cunningham did more with less, turned around a garbage team and getting them to the playoffs 3 seasons in a row, and was faster and posted nearly as good of stats with far less talent 3 decades ago.

If you think Wilson is a better QB or raw athlete than Cunningham (and I hated the Eagles and have no love for Cunningham) then you're smoking crack.

Christ, your are so blind its comical.

Cunningham was a better athlete, Wilson is a better QB. Hands down, end of story. Keep beating the "Wilson sucks" drum, you are the ONLY one that agrees.

Do you have a hard time with reading comprehension? What sane, rational person would think that Wilson's career wont finish out head and shoulders above Cunninghams? On a earlier post you talked about Wilsons Comp % not being on par with the greats, yet you think a guy that is about 8% worse than him is a better QB?

Who's smoking crack now?

Still waiting on your magical list of 10 qb's that are better that Russ. Its been almost a week and I still haven't seen anything. Interesting.

Eh, there was no internet in the 1980s for then-fans to contribute so Wilson benefits from a Primacy factor.

There was no fantasy football or forums in the 1980s so Wilson benefits from the fact that grown men center their lives around this total waste of time jerking off to other men, arguing about who is better.

The difference is you care, and it's critically important in your lives, I don't. lol.

WaJim wrote:Teabagger!



Duke you need to find better friends.

That was down right mean......

Well, at least I'm not the teabaggee hahaha

leadcounsel wrote:Eh, there was no internet in the 1980s for then-fans to contribute so Wilson benefits from a Primacy factor.

There was no fantasy football or forums in the 1980s so Wilson benefits from the fact that grown men center their lives around this total waste of time jerking off to other men, arguing about who is better.

The difference is you care, and it's critically important in your lives, I don't. lol.

Losing the stats/resume argument made you turn to ridiculousness!
Grown men have always been arguing about who's better, no matter what sport it is.
You obviously do care, or you wouldn't continue wasting your time with this

leadcounsel wrote:Eh, there was no internet in the 1980s for then-fans to contribute so Wilson benefits from a Primacy factor.

There was no fantasy football or forums in the 1980s so Wilson benefits from the fact that grown men center their lives around this total waste of time jerking off to other men, arguing about who is better.

The difference is you care, and it's critically important in your lives, I don't. lol.

You hate the NFL, that's no secret to anyone. Yet over the past week or so you jumped feet first into this thread claiming on how much Russell Wilson sucks purely based off YOUR OPINOIN, all the while contradicting yourself along the way. You made statements about stats and top rated players, & once you were called out on it over and over again to prove your point you dodged them like Russell did the Arizona defense last night.

Here is L_O_G's free advice for you today.. Don't use your opinion versus facts then crumble like a cookie when called out for being completely wrong. Its not a good look for anyone, especially a lawyer.

leadcounsel wrote:Eh, there was no internet in the 1980s for then-fans to contribute so Wilson benefits from a Primacy factor.

There was no fantasy football or forums in the 1980s so Wilson benefits from the fact that grown men center their lives around this total waste of time jerking off to other men, arguing about who is better.

The difference is you care, and it's critically important in your lives, I don't. lol.

So your posts basically have no meaning, OR relevancy, and you're just trolling. Ok. Nuff said.

Objection overruled.

leadcounsel wrote:Eh, there was no internet in the 1980s for then-fans to contribute so Wilson benefits from a Primacy factor.

There was no fantasy football or forums in the 1980s so Wilson benefits from the fact that grown men center their lives around this total waste of time jerking off to other men, arguing about who is better.

The difference is you care, and it's critically important in your lives, I don't. lol.

If you didn't care, why have you spent so much time arguing in a thread about a sport you profess to hate?

Your case has been dismissed for lack of evidence Counselor.

LOG - here's the list I adopt. It's a month old. Wilson at #14. https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/18/nfl-q ... b-rankings

It's funny in the face of clear evidence that a QB 3 decades ago was faster, more athletic, and posted generally the same stats as Wilson today - with all of his SIGNIFICANT advantages (rules, teammates, etc.) and listen to the extremely biased Seaduck fans claim Wilson is better.

Their evidence? An inflated QB rating based on those same advantages and a website which - no surprise - would naturally favor a modern era player due to current interest. Talk about circular reasoning.

The QB rating is almost meaningless. Again, Elway is probably top 5 QB in history, and his rating is like 20 points lower than Wilsons (probably not even in the top 30 in history). What a laugh.

I find it entertaining that adult men are so invested in who is better. I can give a rats ass, but 10 folks here pile on insisting that their guy is better. It's comical. I bet some are even angry about there mere suggestion Wilson isn't a deity.

And yet, this dialogue is going to be the same in Green Bay, or Kansas, or wherever that THEIR guy is the best. (Okay, maybe not San Fran...)

The psychology of sports FANATICS is entertaining how ya'll get so worked up.

leadcounsel wrote:Because it's funny in the face of clear evidence that a QB 3 decades ago was faster, more athletic, and posted generally the same stats as Wilson today - with all of his SIGNIFICANT advantages (rules, teammates, etc.) and listen to the extremely biased Seaduck fans claim Wilson is better.

Their evidence? An inflated QB rating based on those same advantages and a website which - no surprise - would naturally favor a modern era player due to current interest. Talk about circular reasoning.

The QB rating is almost meaningless. But yet you used this as one of your "points of evidence" on a earlier post.

Again, Elway is probably top 5 QB in history, and his rating is like 20 points lower than Wilsons (probably not even in the top 30 in history). What a laugh.

I find it entertaining that adult men are so invested in who is better. I can give a rats ass, but 10 folks here pile on insisting that their guy is better. It's comical. I bet some are even angry about there mere suggestion Wilson isn't a deity.

And yet, this dialogue is going to be the same in Green Bay, or Kansas, or wherever that THEIR guy is the best. (Okay, maybe not San Fran...)

The psychology of sports FANATICS is entertaining how ya'll get so worked up.

What's entertaining is your attempting at trolling, and watching you fall flat on your face while attempting doing so. You get hit with facts and you shut down and post about other shit that is completely meaningless.

Nobody is insisting that one guy is better than anyone, YOU made that statement which you still haven't backed up. Im not asking you to scour the internet to find an article that supports YOUR claim, Im asking for YOUR top 10 qbs since you know so much.

leadcounsel wrote: Wilson is not even in the top 10 for QBs.

Oh and nice thread edit BTW

leadcounsel wrote:QB is probably the top position you cannot compare based on raw stats. Any true fan would know this.

The game isn't even the same today as it was just a couple decades ago. QB ratings are evidence of this. Like I said, QBs today have inflated ratings by about 10-20 points vs. what they would have had 2-4 decades ago. There is a lot more passing, more sophisticated offenses, and big changes in the rules hamstring defenders (e.g. no downfield contact with receivers, almost no hitting the QB, etc.). I accidentally watched a little bit of a game a few weeks ago at a bar - it was more interesting than staring at the menu. The QB got hit on a run and it was a penalty because the hit was a millisecond after his knee was down. Total garbage call but that's what the NFL is all about. It's no wonder that QBs can sit in the pocket and pile up 400-500 yard games or routinely scramble for 20 yards and slide to a stop untouched...

Out of curiosity, I've just compared their stats to see who would fare better as a pure athlete. Clearly it's Cunningham, given the serious handicaps he faced in the 1980s (worse team, favorable rules and offenses for modern QBs, etc.). And Cunningham's first year was only a partial year played so his stats aren't even really fair on that aspect as it's missing about 10 games.

Anyway, Cunningham's personal first 6 years stats were/are nearly indistinguishable from Wilsons on key aspects (note Randell only played in 1/3rd of his rookie season games so it's not even a very fair comparable metric). Playing for the worst team in the conference in the 1980s he was every bit as good as Wilson is playing for a dominant team now.

By year 6, both were 3 time pro-bowlers as well.

Best cherry picked stats in any season in first 6 years:

Cunningham - 11/5 team record, 30 TDs, 3808 yds passing, best game 238 yards, completion 58%, longest pass 95 yards, 7 yards/attempt, 16 yards/catch, game winning drives 16, worst/most INTs in a season 16, total INTs 71. Rushing yards ~3500, rushing average 8 yds/attempt, long 52 yds, ave/game 58 yards. Total fumbles ~60.

Wilson - 13/3 team record + team superbowl win and team superbowl loss, 34 TDs, 4219 yds passing, best game 282 yards, completion 68%, longest pass 80 yards, 9 yards/attempt, 12 yards/catch, game winning drives 23, worst/most INTs in a season 11, total INTs 51 (plus a SB losing INT at the goal line - one of the worst INTs in FB history). Rushing yards ~2900, rushing average 7 yds/attempt, long 53 yds, ave/game 53 yards. Total fumbles ~53.

Note the Eagles were terrible early in Cunningham's career with losing records his first 3 years, in near last place or last place, and had minimal significant talent. It was almost all on Cunningham's shoulders. In 1983 the Eagles were 5-11, in 1984 they were 7-9, and for the first three years with Cunningham didn't have 10 wins in a season until 1988 when the team finally got more talent.

OTOH, Wilson has been the benefactor of never playing on a losing team, which means he had significant support on offense and defense which helps his stats significantly. Worst season record Wilson has had is 10 wins. The Seahawks had the best players in many positions on offense and defense for much of Wilsons tenure, which really bumps his stats. Seahawks were already rebuilding with Carroll and 7-9 in 2010 and 2011 the season before Wilson, and thereafter 10 game wins/season.

Given the fact that Cunningham did that 20+ years ago, he was as good or better then than Wilson is today, giving the clear edge to athleticism and ability to Cunningham, due to the advances at the skilled position and rule changes and more widespread talent the Seahawks/Wilson enjoys now.

Cunningham was also noticeably faster and more agile than Wilson, and that was decades ago. I think his 40 speed was around .2 faster.

Cunningham did more with less, turned around a garbage team and getting them to the playoffs 3 seasons in a row, and was faster and posted nearly as good of stats with far less talent 3 decades ago.

If you think Wilson is a better QB or raw athlete than Cunningham (and I hated the Eagles and have no love for Cunningham) then you're smoking crack.

there are multiple fouls on the play,15 yard penalty for not knowing what you are talking about, 10 yards for not knowing when to quit, and 5 yards for trolling, played is ejected from the game. The ball is placed 4 pages back LOG takes possession on LC's 5 yards line.

4 pages of personal attacks and no real explanation of why Wilson is so amazing. Noted.

If you can't win the argument, attack the messenger. A standard tactic.

The fact that no Wilson supporters can acknowledge the fact his stats are largely based on playing for a SB winning team is quite telling.

A quick look at the relevant periods I referenced shows that Wilson played with about 16
other probowlers and most were first-team all-pro multiple years, and a handful of at least 1 time pro-bowlers; for most of these years, from 2012-2016. - Sherman, Wagner, Lynch, Unger, Lockett, Thomas, Chancellor, Bennett, Baldwin, KJ Wright, Graham, Avril, Okung, Browner, Robinson, and Washington. That's 16 players and 1/2 of them were repeat All Pro/BroBowl.

16 players is a pro-bowler at almost every position.

Yeah, let's see who Cunningham had on the Eagles from 1985-1990: Reggie White, Keith Jackson, Mike Quick, Erik Allen, Jerome Brown, Wes Hopkins. That's 6 players. 6 players a pro-bowler at about 25% of the positions.

A world of difference in the weight the QB needs to carry for the two teams the Eagles under Cunningham or the Seahawks under Wilson, with pro-bowlers at most positions.

Far less number of talented teammates, and most of those pro-bowler appearances don't overlap much with Cunninghams first 6 years for comparison purposes.

The seaducks were obviously blessed with a massive amount of top players for Wilson's first 6 years.

leadcounsel wrote:QB is probably the top position you cannot compare based on raw stats. Any true fan would know this.

The game isn't even the same today as it was just a couple decades ago. QB ratings are evidence of this. Like I said, QBs today have inflated ratings by about 10-20 points vs. what they would have had 2-4 decades ago. There is a lot more passing, more sophisticated offenses, and big changes in the rules hamstring defenders (e.g. no downfield contact with receivers, almost no hitting the QB, etc.). I accidentally watched a little bit of a game a few weeks ago at a bar - it was more interesting than staring at the menu. The QB got hit on a run and it was a penalty because the hit was a millisecond after his knee was down. Total garbage call but that's what the NFL is all about. It's no wonder that QBs can sit in the pocket and pile up 400-500 yard games or routinely scramble for 20 yards and slide to a stop untouched...

Out of curiosity, I've just compared their stats to see who would fare better as a pure athlete. Clearly it's Cunningham, given the serious handicaps he faced in the 1980s (worse team, favorable rules and offenses for modern QBs, etc.). And Cunningham's first year was only a partial year played so his stats aren't even really fair on that aspect as it's missing about 10 games.

Anyway, Cunningham's personal first 6 years stats were/are nearly indistinguishable from Wilsons on key aspects (note Randell only played in 1/3rd of his rookie season games so it's not even a very fair comparable metric). Playing for the worst team in the conference in the 1980s he was every bit as good as Wilson is playing for a dominant team now.

By year 6, both were 3 time pro-bowlers as well.

Best cherry picked stats in any season in first 6 years:

Cunningham - 11/5 team record, 30 TDs, 3808 yds passing, best game 238 yards, completion 58%, longest pass 95 yards, 7 yards/attempt, 16 yards/catch, game winning drives 16, worst/most INTs in a season 16, total INTs 71. Rushing yards ~3500, rushing average 8 yds/attempt, long 52 yds, ave/game 58 yards. Total fumbles ~60.

Wilson - 13/3 team record + team superbowl win and team superbowl loss, 34 TDs, 4219 yds passing, best game 282 yards, completion 68%, longest pass 80 yards, 9 yards/attempt, 12 yards/catch, game winning drives 23, worst/most INTs in a season 11, total INTs 51 (plus a SB losing INT at the goal line - one of the worst INTs in FB history). Rushing yards ~2900, rushing average 7 yds/attempt, long 53 yds, ave/game 53 yards. Total fumbles ~53.

Note the Eagles were terrible early in Cunningham's career with losing records his first 3 years, in near last place or last place, and had minimal significant talent. It was almost all on Cunningham's shoulders. In 1983 the Eagles were 5-11, in 1984 they were 7-9, and for the first three years with Cunningham didn't have 10 wins in a season until 1988 when the team finally got more talent.

OTOH, Wilson has been the benefactor of never playing on a losing team, which means he had significant support on offense and defense which helps his stats significantly. Worst season record Wilson has had is 10 wins. The Seahawks had the best players in many positions on offense and defense for much of Wilsons tenure, which really bumps his stats. Seahawks were already rebuilding with Carroll and 7-9 in 2010 and 2011 the season before Wilson, and thereafter 10 game wins/season.

Given the fact that Cunningham did that 20+ years ago, he was as good or better then than Wilson is today, giving the clear edge to athleticism and ability to Cunningham, due to the advances at the skilled position and rule changes and more widespread talent the Seahawks/Wilson enjoys now.

Cunningham was also noticeably faster and more agile than Wilson, and that was decades ago. I think his 40 speed was around .2 faster.

Cunningham did more with less, turned around a garbage team and getting them to the playoffs 3 seasons in a row, and was faster and posted nearly as good of stats with far less talent 3 decades ago.

If you think Wilson is a better QB or raw athlete than Cunningham (and I hated the Eagles and have no love for Cunningham) then you're smoking crack.

leadcounsel wrote:The difference is you care...I don't

leadcounsel wrote:The psychology of sports FANATICS is entertaining how ya'll get so worked up.

Legal beagle you are delusional.

leadcounsel wrote:4 pages of personal attacks and no real explanation of why Wilson is so amazing. Noted.

If you can't win the argument, attack the messenger. A standard tactic.

The fact that no Wilson supporters can acknowledge the fact his stats are largely based on playing for a SB winning team is quite telling.

A quick look at the relevant periods I referenced shows that Wilson played with about 16
other probowlers and most were first-team all-pro multiple years, and a handful of at least 1 time pro-bowlers; for most of these years, from 2012-2016. - Sherman, Wagner, Lynch, Unger, Lockett, Thomas, Chancellor, Bennett, Baldwin, KJ Wright, Graham, Avril, Okung, Browner, Robinson, and Washington. That's 16 players and 1/2 of them were repeat All Pro/BroBowl.

Yeah, let's see who Cunningham had on the Eagles from 1985-1990: Reggie White, Keith Jackson, Mike Quick, Erik Allen, Jerome Brown, Wes Hopkins. That's 6 players.

Far less number of talented teammates, and most of those pro-bowler appearances don't overlap much with Cunninghams first 6 years for comparison purposes.

The seaducks were obviously blessed with a massive amount of top players for Wilson's first 6 years.

Oh so you are now the victim? Got it.

You presented your opinion, I presented facts. What else would you like me to prove wrong?